From adrian@enfusion-group.com Wed Dec 18 03:27:04 2002 Return-Path: Delivered-To: gtasage.org-gtasage-members@gtasage.org Received: (qmail 14332 invoked by uid 500); 18 Dec 2002 03:27:04 -0000 Date: Tue, 17 Dec 2002 22:27:04 -0500 From: Adrian Chung To: gtasage-members@gtasage.org Message-ID: <20021218032703.GA14193@enfusion-group.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.4i X-Operating-System: Linux 2.4.18-18.7.xsmp i686 Organization: Enfusion Group Subject: [gtaSAGE-members] MTA's and gateway virus/MIME/SPAM blocking. Sender: gtasage-members-admin@gtasage.org Errors-To: gtasage-members-admin@gtasage.org X-BeenThere: gtasage-members@gtasage.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: aligning system and network administrators in the greater Toronto area. List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: I've been looking into different ways of doing this for quite some time, and can't decide which way I want to go. Right now, I'm using qmail and qmail-scanner which is a Perl script that spawns everytime mail comes in. It's far from efficient, but it works. There are lots of options out there, but I'm wondering what people are actually using (if anything) and how they like it. Especially, I'm interested in anyone that has any experience with OpenAV or clam antivirus which uses OpenAV, an open-source virus signature database. I'm leaning towards Postfix and Amavis at the moment I think, just because Postfix has so much functionality built into it already. -- Adrian Chung (adrian at enfusion-group dot com) http://www.enfusion-group.com/~adrian/ GPG Fingerprint: C620 C8EA 86BA 79CC 384C E7BE A10C 353B 919D 1A17 [gambit.enfusion-group.com] up 29 days, 17:54, 3 users From russ@quist.ca Wed Dec 18 03:46:17 2002 Return-Path: Delivered-To: gtasage.org-gtasage-members@gtasage.org Received: (qmail 14886 invoked by uid 1004); 18 Dec 2002 03:46:16 -0000 Received: from russ@quist.ca by enfusion-group.com with EG-scanner (Clean. Processed in 0.491409 secs); 18 Dec 2002 03:46:16 -0000 Received: from UNKNOWN (209.167.1.245, claiming to be "jon.quist.ca") by gambit.enfusion-group.com with SMTP id smtpd0TMDGK; Tue, 17 Dec 2002 22:46:13 EST Received: (qmail 6721 invoked by uid 1011); 18 Dec 2002 03:46:07 -0000 Date: Tue, 17 Dec 2002 22:46:07 -0500 From: "Russell P. Sutherland" To: Adrian Chung Cc: gtasage-members@gtasage.org Subject: Re: [gtaSAGE-members] MTA's and gateway virus/MIME/SPAM blocking. Message-ID: <20021218034607.GB6620@quist.ca> References: <20021218032703.GA14193@enfusion-group.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20021218032703.GA14193@enfusion-group.com> User-Agent: Mutt/1.3.28i Organization: Quist Consulting Sender: gtasage-members-admin@gtasage.org Errors-To: gtasage-members-admin@gtasage.org X-BeenThere: gtasage-members@gtasage.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: aligning system and network administrators in the greater Toronto area. List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: * Adrian Chung (adrian@enfusion-group.com) [17 Dec 2002 22:28]: > Right now, I'm using qmail and qmail-scanner which is a Perl script > that spawns everytime mail comes in. It's far from efficient, but it > works. > > There are lots of options out there, but I'm wondering what people are > actually using (if anything) and how they like it. I've found good success using: qmail spamassassin santizer/anomy The latter is an antivirus defanger which supports plugins. Its free so I use it. :^) -- Quist Consulting Email: russ@quist.ca 219 Donlea Drive Voice: +1.416.696.7600 Toronto ON M4G 2N1 Cell: +1.416.803.0080 CANADA WWW: http://www.quist.ca From jdunn@aquezada.com Wed Dec 18 04:09:57 2002 Return-Path: Delivered-To: gtasage.org-gtasage-members@gtasage.org Received: (qmail 15572 invoked by uid 1004); 18 Dec 2002 04:09:57 -0000 Received: from jdunn@aquezada.com by enfusion-group.com with EG-scanner (Clean. Processed in 0.441922 secs); 18 Dec 2002 04:09:57 -0000 Received: from alumni-9.dialin.utoronto.ca (142.150.130.108, claiming to be "aphrodite.aquezada.com") by gambit.enfusion-group.com with SMTP id smtpdIt6Art; Tue, 17 Dec 2002 23:09:55 EST Received: from jupiter.acf.aquezada.com (jupiter.acf.aquezada.com [192.168.5.5]) by aphrodite.aquezada.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C7CBFD5AB for ; Tue, 17 Dec 2002 23:09:52 -0500 (EST) Received: by jupiter.acf.aquezada.com (Postfix, from userid 1001) id 88B1B52E48; Tue, 17 Dec 2002 23:09:56 -0500 (EST) Subject: Re: [gtaSAGE-members] MTA's and gateway virus/MIME/SPAM blocking. From: "Julian C. Dunn" To: gtasage-members@gtasage.org In-Reply-To: <20021218034607.GB6620@quist.ca> References: <20021218032703.GA14193@enfusion-group.com> <20021218034607.GB6620@quist.ca> Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Organization: Aquezada Productions Message-Id: <1040184596.1575.100.camel@jupiter.acf.aquezada.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Ximian Evolution 1.2.0 Date: 17 Dec 2002 23:09:56 -0500 Sender: gtasage-members-admin@gtasage.org Errors-To: gtasage-members-admin@gtasage.org X-BeenThere: gtasage-members@gtasage.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: aligning system and network administrators in the greater Toronto area. List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: On Tue, 2002-12-17 at 22:46, Russell P. Sutherland wrote: > I've found good success using: > > qmail > spamassassin > santizer/anomy > > The latter is an antivirus defanger which supports plugins. > Its free so I use it. :^) We use Postfix + amavisd at Dreaming (The Dreaming Network). It works well, but my only complaint is that amavis is, ultimately, Perl, and Perl is a big memory hog. Before we switched to the daemon version, the mail server would run out of swap space on a regular basis, just spawning Perl jobs. (Even with Postfix's child process limits.) We do have spamassassin installed but leave its use up to the individual user. I personally use it and have found it to be quite good. Once again, the downside is that it is Perl; the upside is that, once again, there is a spamc/spamd (client/server) edition which relieves the memory bottleneck. - Julian -- [ Julian C. Dunn * ] [ WWW: http://www.aquezada.com/staff/julian/ * PGP: 0xFDC205B9 ] [ "let's have a god who likes to party" - disappear fear ] From adrian@enfusion-group.com Wed Dec 18 14:58:37 2002 Return-Path: Delivered-To: gtasage.org-gtasage-members@gtasage.org Received: (qmail 1519 invoked by uid 500); 18 Dec 2002 14:58:37 -0000 Date: Wed, 18 Dec 2002 09:58:37 -0500 From: Adrian Chung To: gtasage-members@gtasage.org Subject: Re: [gtaSAGE-members] MTA's and gateway virus/MIME/SPAM blocking. Message-ID: <20021218145837.GA1380@enfusion-group.com> Mail-Followup-To: gtasage-members@gtasage.org References: <20021218032703.GA14193@enfusion-group.com> <20021218034607.GB6620@quist.ca> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20021218034607.GB6620@quist.ca> User-Agent: Mutt/1.4i X-Operating-System: Linux 2.4.18-18.7.xsmp i686 Organization: Enfusion Group Sender: gtasage-members-admin@gtasage.org Errors-To: gtasage-members-admin@gtasage.org X-BeenThere: gtasage-members@gtasage.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: aligning system and network administrators in the greater Toronto area. List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: On Tue, Dec 17, 2002 at 10:46:07PM -0500, Russell P. Sutherland wrote: > * Adrian Chung (adrian@enfusion-group.com) [17 Dec 2002 22:28]: > > > Right now, I'm using qmail and qmail-scanner which is a Perl script > > that spawns everytime mail comes in. It's far from efficient, but it > > works. > > > > There are lots of options out there, but I'm wondering what people are > > actually using (if anything) and how they like it. > > I've found good success using: > > qmail > spamassassin > santizer/anomy > > The latter is an antivirus defanger which supports plugins. > Its free so I use it. :^) Are you using a third party virus scanner as well? Or just scanning based on MIME types? -- Adrian Chung (adrian at enfusion-group dot com) http://www.enfusion-group.com/~adrian/ GPG Fingerprint: C620 C8EA 86BA 79CC 384C E7BE A10C 353B 919D 1A17 [gambit.enfusion-group.com] 9:57am up 30 days, 5:28, 3 users From russ@quist.ca Wed Dec 18 15:02:08 2002 Return-Path: Delivered-To: gtasage.org-gtasage-members@gtasage.org Received: (qmail 1712 invoked by uid 1004); 18 Dec 2002 15:02:08 -0000 Received: from russ@quist.ca by enfusion-group.com with EG-scanner (Clean. Processed in 0.438325 secs); 18 Dec 2002 15:02:08 -0000 Received: from UNKNOWN (209.167.1.245, claiming to be "jon.quist.ca") by gambit.enfusion-group.com with SMTP id smtpdiFR2Px; Wed, 18 Dec 2002 10:01:57 EST Received: (qmail 14930 invoked by uid 1011); 18 Dec 2002 15:01:55 -0000 Date: Wed, 18 Dec 2002 10:01:55 -0500 From: "Russell P. Sutherland" To: "Julian C. Dunn" Cc: gtasage-members@gtasage.org Subject: Re: [gtaSAGE-members] MTA's and gateway virus/MIME/SPAM blocking. Message-ID: <20021218150155.GE13360@quist.ca> References: <20021218032703.GA14193@enfusion-group.com> <20021218034607.GB6620@quist.ca> <1040184596.1575.100.camel@jupiter.acf.aquezada.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <1040184596.1575.100.camel@jupiter.acf.aquezada.com> User-Agent: Mutt/1.3.28i Organization: Quist Consulting Sender: gtasage-members-admin@gtasage.org Errors-To: gtasage-members-admin@gtasage.org X-BeenThere: gtasage-members@gtasage.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: aligning system and network administrators in the greater Toronto area. List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: * Julian C. Dunn (jdunn@aquezada.com) [18 Dec 2002 09:44]: > We use Postfix + amavisd at Dreaming (The Dreaming Network). It works > well, but my only complaint is that amavis is, ultimately, Perl, and > Perl is a big memory hog. Before we switched to the daemon version, the > mail server would run out of swap space on a regular basis, just > spawning Perl jobs. (Even with Postfix's child process limits.) > > We do have spamassassin installed but leave its use up to the individual > user. I personally use it and have found it to be quite good. Once > again, the downside is that it is Perl; the upside is that, once again, > there is a spamc/spamd (client/server) edition which relieves the memory > bottleneck. I'm about to test about a newer tool: BlackHole -- Spam and Virus Blocking plus general email filtering for Qmail, Sendmail, Postfix, Exim or Courier. http://the.groovy.org/blackhole.shtml It's written entirely in C so should have lower overhead that all the perl based tools. -- Quist Consulting Email: russ@quist.ca 219 Donlea Drive Voice: +1.416.696.7600 Toronto ON M4G 2N1 Cell: +1.416.803.0080 CANADA WWW: http://www.quist.ca From adrian@enfusion-group.com Wed Dec 18 15:04:45 2002 Return-Path: Delivered-To: gtasage.org-gtasage-members@gtasage.org Received: (qmail 1953 invoked by uid 500); 18 Dec 2002 15:04:45 -0000 Date: Wed, 18 Dec 2002 10:04:45 -0500 From: Adrian Chung To: gtasage-members@gtasage.org Subject: Re: [gtaSAGE-members] MTA's and gateway virus/MIME/SPAM blocking. Message-ID: <20021218150445.GB1380@enfusion-group.com> Mail-Followup-To: gtasage-members@gtasage.org References: <20021218032703.GA14193@enfusion-group.com> <20021218034607.GB6620@quist.ca> <1040184596.1575.100.camel@jupiter.acf.aquezada.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <1040184596.1575.100.camel@jupiter.acf.aquezada.com> User-Agent: Mutt/1.4i X-Operating-System: Linux 2.4.18-18.7.xsmp i686 Organization: Enfusion Group Sender: gtasage-members-admin@gtasage.org Errors-To: gtasage-members-admin@gtasage.org X-BeenThere: gtasage-members@gtasage.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: aligning system and network administrators in the greater Toronto area. List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: On Tue, Dec 17, 2002 at 11:09:56PM -0500, Julian C. Dunn wrote: > On Tue, 2002-12-17 at 22:46, Russell P. Sutherland wrote: > > > I've found good success using: > > > > qmail > > spamassassin > > santizer/anomy > > > > The latter is an antivirus defanger which supports plugins. > > Its free so I use it. :^) > > We use Postfix + amavisd at Dreaming (The Dreaming Network). It works > well, but my only complaint is that amavis is, ultimately, Perl, and > Perl is a big memory hog. Before we switched to the daemon version, the > mail server would run out of swap space on a regular basis, just > spawning Perl jobs. (Even with Postfix's child process limits.) > > We do have spamassassin installed but leave its use up to the individual > user. I personally use it and have found it to be quite good. Once > again, the downside is that it is Perl; the upside is that, once again, > there is a spamc/spamd (client/server) edition which relieves the memory > bottleneck. I think I'm leaning towards a similar setup to what you've got. One of the things I liked about amavis was that even though it was Perl, it was at least capable of running as a daemon, which alleviates some of the pain. Ditto for spamassassin. Something else I looked at quickly was MessageWall (www.messagewall.org), but it is still fairly new. Have yet to install it and try it out though. -- Adrian Chung (adrian at enfusion-group dot com) http://www.enfusion-group.com/~adrian/ GPG Fingerprint: C620 C8EA 86BA 79CC 384C E7BE A10C 353B 919D 1A17 [gambit.enfusion-group.com] up 30 days, 5:33, 3 users From nistor@snickers.org Wed Dec 18 15:06:28 2002 Return-Path: Delivered-To: gtasage.org-gtasage-members@gtasage.org Received: (qmail 2090 invoked by uid 1004); 18 Dec 2002 15:06:28 -0000 Received: from nistor@snickers.org by enfusion-group.com with EG-scanner (Clean. Processed in 0.440121 secs); 18 Dec 2002 15:06:28 -0000 Received: from mail.snickers.org (216.126.90.4) by gambit.enfusion-group.com with SMTP id smtpdNZCwxj; Wed, 18 Dec 2002 10:06:23 EST Received: from mail.snickers.org (mail.snickers.org [216.126.90.4]) (using TLSv1 with cipher EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA (168/168 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by mail.snickers.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5B4BF1D for ; Wed, 18 Dec 2002 10:06:34 -0500 (EST) Date: Wed, 18 Dec 2002 10:06:34 -0500 (EST) From: Jon Nistor To: gtasage-members@gtasage.org Subject: Re: [gtaSAGE-members] MTA's and gateway virus/MIME/SPAM blocking. In-Reply-To: <20021218150445.GB1380@enfusion-group.com> Message-ID: <20021218100545.O12255-100000@spike.snickers.org> References: <20021218032703.GA14193@enfusion-group.com> <20021218034607.GB6620@quist.ca> <1040184596.1575.100.camel@jupiter.acf.aquezada.com> <20021218150445.GB1380@enfusion-group.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: gtasage-members-admin@gtasage.org Errors-To: gtasage-members-admin@gtasage.org X-BeenThere: gtasage-members@gtasage.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: aligning system and network administrators in the greater Toronto area. List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Why use spamassasin or any other spam thingy when you can just have a 500 line header/body check file in regex =) Think of the pain and agony of it all! On Wed, 18 Dec 2002, Adrian Chung wrote: ::On Tue, Dec 17, 2002 at 11:09:56PM -0500, Julian C. Dunn wrote: ::> On Tue, 2002-12-17 at 22:46, Russell P. Sutherland wrote: ::> ::> > I've found good success using: ::> > ::> > qmail ::> > spamassassin ::> > santizer/anomy ::> > ::> > The latter is an antivirus defanger which supports plugins. ::> > Its free so I use it. :^) ::> ::> We use Postfix + amavisd at Dreaming (The Dreaming Network). It works ::> well, but my only complaint is that amavis is, ultimately, Perl, and ::> Perl is a big memory hog. Before we switched to the daemon version, the ::> mail server would run out of swap space on a regular basis, just ::> spawning Perl jobs. (Even with Postfix's child process limits.) ::> ::> We do have spamassassin installed but leave its use up to the individual ::> user. I personally use it and have found it to be quite good. Once ::> again, the downside is that it is Perl; the upside is that, once again, ::> there is a spamc/spamd (client/server) edition which relieves the memory ::> bottleneck. :: ::I think I'm leaning towards a similar setup to what you've got. One ::of the things I liked about amavis was that even though it was Perl, ::it was at least capable of running as a daemon, which alleviates some ::of the pain. Ditto for spamassassin. :: ::Something else I looked at quickly was MessageWall ::(www.messagewall.org), but it is still fairly new. Have yet to ::install it and try it out though. :: ::-- ::Adrian Chung (adrian at enfusion-group dot com) ::http://www.enfusion-group.com/~adrian/ ::GPG Fingerprint: C620 C8EA 86BA 79CC 384C E7BE A10C 353B 919D 1A17 ::[gambit.enfusion-group.com] up 30 days, 5:33, 3 users :: ::_______________________________________________ ::gtaSAGE-members mailing list ::gtaSAGE-members@gtasage.org ::http://lists.enfusion-group.com/mailman/listinfo/gtasage-members :: ______ Jon (nistor@snickers.org) - iioiiooo.oiiiiiio.oioiioio.ooooooio : EOF : From lists+gtasage@aquezada.com Wed Dec 18 15:29:28 2002 Return-Path: Delivered-To: gtasage.org-gtasage-members@gtasage.org Received: (qmail 2915 invoked by uid 1004); 18 Dec 2002 15:29:28 -0000 Received: from lists+gtasage@aquezada.com by enfusion-group.com with EG-scanner (Clean. Processed in 0.435484 secs); 18 Dec 2002 15:29:28 -0000 Received: from nat.verticalscope.com (209.82.14.131, claiming to be "chrome.office.verticalscope.com") by gambit.enfusion-group.com with SMTP id smtpdHhwB4Q; Wed, 18 Dec 2002 10:29:21 EST Received: from enterprise.office.verticalscope.com (enterprise.office.verticalscope.com [10.10.10.11]) by chrome.office.verticalscope.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id CAEC963; Wed, 18 Dec 2002 10:29:20 -0500 (EST) Received: by enterprise.office.verticalscope.com (Postfix, from userid 1002) id F0D262E802; Wed, 18 Dec 2002 10:29:17 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by enterprise.office.verticalscope.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id EA54A2AA03; Wed, 18 Dec 2002 10:29:17 -0500 (EST) Date: Wed, 18 Dec 2002 10:29:17 -0500 (EST) From: "Julian C. Dunn" X-X-Sender: jdunn@enterprise.office.verticalscope.com To: Jon Nistor Cc: gtasage-members@gtasage.org Subject: Re: [gtaSAGE-members] MTA's and gateway virus/MIME/SPAM blocking. In-Reply-To: <20021218100545.O12255-100000@spike.snickers.org> Message-ID: <20021218102625.Y96458-100000@enterprise.office.verticalscope.com> References: <20021218032703.GA14193@enfusion-group.com> <20021218034607.GB6620@quist.ca> <1040184596.1575.100.camel@jupiter.acf.aquezada.com> <20021218150445.GB1380@enfusion-group.com> <20021218100545.O12255-100000@spike.snickers.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: gtasage-members-admin@gtasage.org Errors-To: gtasage-members-admin@gtasage.org X-BeenThere: gtasage-members@gtasage.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: aligning system and network administrators in the greater Toronto area. List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: On Wed, 18 Dec 2002, Jon Nistor wrote: > Why use spamassasin or any other spam thingy when you can just have a 500 > line header/body check file in regex =) Think of the pain and agony of it > all! Haha! Funny man! Seriously though, in actual fact we already have 500+ lines of header and body checks. The only problem with those is that the risk of false positives is much higher; because you cannot assign a "score" to those regexps, if you accidentally hit one, you're immediately screwed (REJECTed). - Julian -- | Julian C. Dunn | | WWW: http://www.aquezada.com/staff/julian/ | | "Documentation is like sex: when it is good, it is very, very good; | | and when it is bad, it is better than nothing." -- Dick Brandon | From nistor@snickers.org Wed Dec 18 15:34:08 2002 Return-Path: Delivered-To: gtasage.org-gtasage-members@gtasage.org Received: (qmail 3137 invoked by uid 1004); 18 Dec 2002 15:34:08 -0000 Received: from nistor@snickers.org by enfusion-group.com with EG-scanner (Clean. Processed in 0.437518 secs); 18 Dec 2002 15:34:08 -0000 Received: from mail.snickers.org (216.126.90.4) by gambit.enfusion-group.com with SMTP id smtpdZV0WGP; Wed, 18 Dec 2002 10:33:58 EST Received: from mail.snickers.org (mail.snickers.org [216.126.90.4]) (using TLSv1 with cipher EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA (168/168 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by mail.snickers.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A46C01D; Wed, 18 Dec 2002 10:34:09 -0500 (EST) Date: Wed, 18 Dec 2002 10:34:09 -0500 (EST) From: Jon Nistor To: "Julian C. Dunn" Cc: gtasage-members@gtasage.org Subject: Re: [gtaSAGE-members] MTA's and gateway virus/MIME/SPAM blocking. In-Reply-To: <20021218102625.Y96458-100000@enterprise.office.verticalscope.com> Message-ID: <20021218103359.J12562-100000@spike.snickers.org> References: <20021218032703.GA14193@enfusion-group.com> <20021218034607.GB6620@quist.ca> <1040184596.1575.100.camel@jupiter.acf.aquezada.com> <20021218150445.GB1380@enfusion-group.com> <20021218100545.O12255-100000@spike.snickers.org> <20021218102625.Y96458-100000@enterprise.office.verticalscope.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: gtasage-members-admin@gtasage.org Errors-To: gtasage-members-admin@gtasage.org X-BeenThere: gtasage-members@gtasage.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: aligning system and network administrators in the greater Toronto area. List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: or the solution of: "if its important, they'll call" :) On Wed, 18 Dec 2002, Julian C. Dunn wrote: ::On Wed, 18 Dec 2002, Jon Nistor wrote: :: ::> Why use spamassasin or any other spam thingy when you can just have a 500 ::> line header/body check file in regex =) Think of the pain and agony of it ::> all! :: ::Haha! Funny man! :: ::Seriously though, in actual fact we already have 500+ lines of header and ::body checks. The only problem with those is that the risk of false ::positives is much higher; because you cannot assign a "score" to those ::regexps, if you accidentally hit one, you're immediately screwed ::(REJECTed). :: ::- Julian :: ::-- ::| Julian C. Dunn | ::| WWW: http://www.aquezada.com/staff/julian/ | ::| "Documentation is like sex: when it is good, it is very, very good; | ::| and when it is bad, it is better than nothing." -- Dick Brandon | :: ______ Jon (nistor@snickers.org) - iioiiooo.oiiiiiio.oioiioio.ooooooio : EOF : From lsorense@calum.csclub.uwaterloo.ca Wed Dec 18 17:19:18 2002 Return-Path: Delivered-To: gtasage.org-gtasage-members@gtasage.org Received: (qmail 6102 invoked by uid 1004); 18 Dec 2002 17:19:18 -0000 Received: from lsorense@calum.csclub.uwaterloo.ca by enfusion-group.com with EG-scanner (Clean. Processed in 0.485453 secs); 18 Dec 2002 17:19:18 -0000 Received: from perpugilliam.csclub.uwaterloo.ca (129.97.134.31) by gambit.enfusion-group.com with SMTP id smtpdWFiKl3; Wed, 18 Dec 2002 12:19:15 EST Received: by perpugilliam.csclub.uwaterloo.ca (Postfix, from userid 3120) id 98DE710ACA8; Wed, 18 Dec 2002 12:16:21 -0500 (EST) Date: Wed, 18 Dec 2002 12:16:21 -0500 To: Adrian Chung Cc: gtasage-members@gtasage.org Subject: Re: [gtaSAGE-members] MTA's and gateway virus/MIME/SPAM blocking. Message-ID: <20021218171621.GD4251@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> References: <20021218032703.GA14193@enfusion-group.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20021218032703.GA14193@enfusion-group.com> User-Agent: Mutt/1.4i From: lsorense@csclub.uwaterloo.ca (Lennart Sorensen) Sender: gtasage-members-admin@gtasage.org Errors-To: gtasage-members-admin@gtasage.org X-BeenThere: gtasage-members@gtasage.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: aligning system and network administrators in the greater Toronto area. List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: On Tue, Dec 17, 2002 at 10:27:04PM -0500, Adrian Chung wrote: > I've been looking into different ways of doing this for quite some > time, and can't decide which way I want to go. > > Right now, I'm using qmail and qmail-scanner which is a Perl script > that spawns everytime mail comes in. It's far from efficient, but it > works. > > There are lots of options out there, but I'm wondering what people are > actually using (if anything) and how they like it. > > Especially, I'm interested in anyone that has any experience with > OpenAV or clam antivirus which uses OpenAV, an open-source virus > signature database. > > I'm leaning towards Postfix and Amavis at the moment I think, just > because Postfix has so much functionality built into it already. I currently run everything through f-prot using exiscan for exim. Works well for our use so far. I haven't really looked at the OpenAV stuff yet. Len Sorensen From redmunds@agincourtautohaus.com Wed Jan 08 11:45:08 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: gtasage.org-gtasage-members@gtasage.org Received: (qmail 24562 invoked by uid 1004); 8 Jan 2003 06:45:08 -0500 Received: from redmunds@agincourtautohaus.com by enfusion-group.com with qmail-scanner; 08 Jan 2003 11:45:08 -0000 Received: from idbt.com (207.139.200.2, claiming to be "servera0.idbt.com") by gambit.enfusion-group.com with SMTP id smtpdNrvQfY; Wed, 08 Jan 2003 06:44:58 EST Received: from [24.102.139.247] by servera0.agincourtautohaus.com (NTMail 6.04.0010/NT7630.00.a51440a8) with ESMTP id ruqwkaaa for gtasage-members@gtasage.org; Wed, 8 Jan 2003 06:44:46 -0500 Message-ID: <007d01c2b724$c9f99d40$0301a8c0@dussty> From: "Dussty" To: Date: Wed, 8 Jan 2003 06:46:55 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_007A_01C2B6E1.BB9F6EC0" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4522.1200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=2.7 required=5.0 tests=DATE_IN_FUTURE_03_06,SPAM_PHRASE_00_01,SUBJ_MISSING, USER_AGENT_OE version=2.43-cvs X-Spam-Level: ** Subject: [gtaSAGE-members] (no subject) Sender: gtasage-members-admin@gtasage.org Errors-To: gtasage-members-admin@gtasage.org X-BeenThere: gtasage-members@gtasage.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: aligning system and network administrators in the greater Toronto area. List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_007A_01C2B6E1.BB9F6EC0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Am uncertain as to whether this is the correct platform for this, but = forgive me if I need >redirection I Need to make contact with a Debian Linux Network System Administrator = who knows decidedly more than myself for collaboration on our system's = growth=20 Every listing for Linux consultants turns up someone who is writing c++, = java or software, when what is needed is someone who knows ipchains and = freeswan. I dont know if I even qualify to join gtaSage=20 Robin Edmunds ------=_NextPart_000_007A_01C2B6E1.BB9F6EC0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Am uncertain as to whether this is the = correct=20 platform for this, but forgive me if I need >redirection
I Need to make contact with a Debian = Linux Network=20 System Administrator who knows decidedly more than myself for = collaboration on=20 our system's growth
Every listing for Linux consultants = turns up=20 someone who is writing c++, java or software, when what is needed is = someone who=20 knows ipchains and freeswan.
I dont know if  I even qualify to = join gtaSage=20
Robin Edmunds
 
------=_NextPart_000_007A_01C2B6E1.BB9F6EC0-- From adrian@enfusion-group.com Wed Jan 08 14:48:01 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: gtasage.org-gtasage-members@gtasage.org Received: (qmail 29322 invoked by uid 500); 8 Jan 2003 09:48:00 -0500 Date: Wed, 8 Jan 2003 09:48:00 -0500 From: Adrian Chung To: gtasage-members@gtasage.org Subject: Re: [gtaSAGE-members] (no subject) Message-ID: <20030108144800.GC4277@enfusion-group.com> Mail-Followup-To: gtasage-members@gtasage.org References: <007d01c2b724$c9f99d40$0301a8c0@dussty> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <007d01c2b724$c9f99d40$0301a8c0@dussty> User-Agent: Mutt/1.4i X-Operating-System: Linux 2.4.18-19.7.xsmp i686 Organization: Enfusion Group Sender: gtasage-members-admin@gtasage.org Errors-To: gtasage-members-admin@gtasage.org X-BeenThere: gtasage-members@gtasage.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: aligning system and network administrators in the greater Toronto area. List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: On Wed, Jan 08, 2003 at 06:46:55AM -0800, Dussty wrote: > Am uncertain as to whether this is the correct platform for this, > but forgive me if I need >redirection I Need to make contact with a > Debian Linux Network System Administrator who knows decidedly more > than myself for collaboration on our system's growth Every listing > for Linux consultants turns up someone who is writing c++, java or > software, when what is needed is someone who knows ipchains and > freeswan. > I dont know if I even qualify to join gtaSage > Robin Edmunds If you're looking for a system administrator in the Toronto area, then you're in the right place. You can probably find what you're looking for on this list, although the Toronto Linux Users Group (www.tlug.org) may be another place to look. Anyone who is interested in discussing system and/or network administration is welcome to join the group, but bear in mind that this list is not intended to be a technical support forum. -- Adrian Chung (adrian at enfusion-group dot com) http://www.enfusion-group.com/~adrian/ GPG Fingerprint: C620 C8EA 86BA 79CC 384C E7BE A10C 353B 919D 1A17 [gambit.enfusion-group.com] 9:35am up 4 days, 6:01, 11 users From duane@duanebedeau.com Fri Jan 10 01:08:13 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: gtasage.org-gtasage-members@gtasage.org Received: (qmail 25362 invoked by uid 1004); 9 Jan 2003 20:08:13 -0500 Received: from duane@duanebedeau.com by enfusion-group.com with qmail-scanner; 10 Jan 2003 01:08:13 -0000 Received: from CPE0002b328957b-CM0010951569b2.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com (24.192.81.135, claiming to be "skippy.duanebedeau.com") by gambit.enfusion-group.com with SMTP id smtpdTjcpWE; Thu, 09 Jan 2003 20:08:03 EST Received: from skippy.duanebedeau.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by skippy.duanebedeau.com (8.12.4/8.12.4) with ESMTP id h0A185Y4003055 for ; Thu, 9 Jan 2003 20:08:05 -0500 Received: (from duane@localhost) by skippy.duanebedeau.com (8.12.4/8.12.4/Submit) id h0A1841Z003054; Thu, 9 Jan 2003 20:08:04 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: skippy.duanebedeau.com: duane set sender to duane@duanebedeau.com using -f From: Duane Bedeau To: gtasage-members@gtasage.org Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Ximian Evolution 1.0.7 Date: 09 Jan 2003 20:08:04 -0500 Message-Id: <1042160884.294.19.camel@skippy> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.3 required=5.0 tests=SIGNATURE_SHORT_DENSE,SPAM_PHRASE_00_01,X_AUTH_WARNING version=2.43-cvs X-Spam-Level: Subject: [gtaSAGE-members] meetings Sender: gtasage-members-admin@gtasage.org Errors-To: gtasage-members-admin@gtasage.org X-BeenThere: gtasage-members@gtasage.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: aligning system and network administrators in the greater Toronto area. List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Got a question... Do the gtasage members have any plans for a real live in person meeting of some nature? It'd be helpful and easier to discuss certain things... Since we're GTA based, it'd be easy to arrange as well... Sounds like a win-win situation no? -- Duane Bedeau DBS Consulting Services Tel:(416)782-3514 http://www.dbsconsulting.ca Email:duane@dbsconsulting.ca From nistor@snickers.org Fri Jan 10 01:17:03 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: gtasage.org-gtasage-members@gtasage.org Received: (qmail 25813 invoked by uid 1004); 9 Jan 2003 20:17:03 -0500 Received: from nistor@snickers.org by enfusion-group.com with qmail-scanner; 10 Jan 2003 01:17:03 -0000 Received: from 220.40.220-216.q9.net (216.220.40.220, claiming to be "spike.snickers.org") by gambit.enfusion-group.com with SMTP id smtpdakytgb; Thu, 09 Jan 2003 20:16:55 EST Received: by spike.snickers.org (Postfix, from userid 1000) id 11D3BFD70; Thu, 9 Jan 2003 20:16:52 -0500 (EST) Date: Thu, 9 Jan 2003 20:16:52 -0500 (EST) From: Jon Nistor To: Duane Bedeau Cc: gtasage-members@gtasage.org Subject: Re: [gtaSAGE-members] meetings In-Reply-To: <1042160884.294.19.camel@skippy> Message-ID: <20030109201624.O51055@spike.snickers.org> References: <1042160884.294.19.camel@skippy> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.2 required=5.0 tests=AWL,IN_REP_TO,REFERENCES,SPAM_PHRASE_00_01 version=2.43-cvs X-Spam-Level: Sender: gtasage-members-admin@gtasage.org Errors-To: gtasage-members-admin@gtasage.org X-BeenThere: gtasage-members@gtasage.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: aligning system and network administrators in the greater Toronto area. List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: ||Do the gtasage members have any plans for a real live in person meeting ||of some nature? It'd be helpful and easier to discuss certain things... ||Since we're GTA based, it'd be easy to arrange as well... I dunno man, some of these ppl like adrian are animals. Never know what might happen when you meet them. ______ Jon (nistor@snickers.org) - iioiiooo.oiiiiiio.oioiioio.ooooooio : EOF : From adrian@enfusion-group.com Fri Jan 10 02:29:09 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: gtasage.org-gtasage-members@gtasage.org Received: (qmail 28203 invoked by uid 500); 9 Jan 2003 21:29:09 -0500 Date: Thu, 9 Jan 2003 21:29:09 -0500 From: Adrian Chung To: gtasage-members@gtasage.org Message-ID: <20030110022908.GG4277@enfusion-group.com> Mail-Followup-To: gtasage-members@gtasage.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.4i X-Operating-System: Linux 2.4.18-19.7.xsmp i686 Organization: Enfusion Group Subject: [gtaSAGE-members] Apache/mod_ssl and IE problems. Sender: gtasage-members-admin@gtasage.org Errors-To: gtasage-members-admin@gtasage.org X-BeenThere: gtasage-members@gtasage.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: aligning system and network administrators in the greater Toronto area. List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Has anyone ever experienced problems with IE and Apache/mod_ssl? Specifically, I'm having problems with Horde/IMP over SSL. I'm only seemingly seeing the problem in IE, and it definitely only happens over SSL. In my setup, IMP opens a new window for Composing a new message. There are various options you can choose from the compose window, including spell check, expand names, address book, attachments, etc. What happens is that sometimes, when one of these links is clicked, IE reports that the "Page Cannot Be Displayed" and that there was an "Invalid server name or DNS failure". However, if I hit "Refresh", it does whatever it was going to do just fine. I've looked at both the IMP mailing list, and the mod_ssl FAQ (but not mailing list yet), and suggestions include various options, such as: --------add this to httpd.conf.ssl ------------- SSLProtocol all -SSLv3 ---------------------------------------------- and the following to horde.conf (in Directory section) SetEnvIf User-Agent ".*MSIE.*" nokeepalive ssl-unclean-shutdown downgrade-1.0 force-response-1.0 I'm going to try it out now, but thought I'd ask if anyone's been down this road before. Seems to be only after 5 minutes or so of inactivity, so it seems like a timeout problem. -- Adrian Chung (adrian at enfusion-group dot com) http://www.enfusion-group.com/~adrian/ GPG Fingerprint: C620 C8EA 86BA 79CC 384C E7BE A10C 353B 919D 1A17 [gambit.enfusion-group.com] 9:05pm up 5 days, 17:32, 11 users From lists+gtasage@aquezada.com Fri Jan 10 02:43:33 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: gtasage.org-gtasage-members@gtasage.org Received: (qmail 28858 invoked by uid 1004); 9 Jan 2003 21:43:33 -0500 Received: from lists+gtasage@aquezada.com by enfusion-group.com with qmail-scanner; 10 Jan 2003 02:43:33 -0000 Received: from alumni-5.dialin.utoronto.ca (142.150.130.104, claiming to be "aphrodite.aquezada.com") by gambit.enfusion-group.com with SMTP id smtpdgkFwdT; Thu, 09 Jan 2003 21:43:31 EST Received: from jupiter.acf.aquezada.com (jupiter.acf.aquezada.com [192.168.5.5]) by aphrodite.aquezada.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1B051D5B1 for ; Thu, 9 Jan 2003 21:43:26 -0500 (EST) Received: by jupiter.acf.aquezada.com (Postfix, from userid 1001) id 8376E53D26; Thu, 9 Jan 2003 21:43:25 -0500 (EST) Subject: Re: [gtaSAGE-members] Apache/mod_ssl and IE problems. From: "Julian C. Dunn" To: gtasage-members@gtasage.org In-Reply-To: <20030110022908.GG4277@enfusion-group.com> References: <20030110022908.GG4277@enfusion-group.com> Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Organization: Aquezada Productions Message-Id: <1042166605.1050.36.camel@jupiter.acf.aquezada.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Ximian Evolution 1.2.0 Date: 09 Jan 2003 21:43:25 -0500 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-1.5 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO,NOSPAM_INC,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT,REFERENCES, SIGNATURE_SHORT_DENSE,SPAM_PHRASE_03_05 version=2.43-cvs X-Spam-Level: Sender: gtasage-members-admin@gtasage.org Errors-To: gtasage-members-admin@gtasage.org X-BeenThere: gtasage-members@gtasage.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: aligning system and network administrators in the greater Toronto area. List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: On Thu, 2003-01-09 at 21:29, Adrian Chung wrote: > Has anyone ever experienced problems with IE and Apache/mod_ssl? > --------add this to httpd.conf.ssl ------------- > SSLProtocol all -SSLv3 > ---------------------------------------------- > > and the following to horde.conf (in Directory section) > > SetEnvIf User-Agent ".*MSIE.*" nokeepalive ssl-unclean-shutdown > downgrade-1.0 force-response-1.0 > > I'm going to try it out now, but thought I'd ask if anyone's been down > this road before. Yes, I've been down this road before. Those hacks will work... sort of. However, the SSL implementation in certain versions of IE is fundamentally broken. No amount of hackery can fix the fact that you will probably continue to have problems. If you search the mod_ssl-users mailing list you will probably find many folks saying the same thing. - Julian -- [ Julian C. Dunn * ] [ WWW: http://www.aquezada.com/staff/julian/ * PGP: 0xFDC205B9 ] [ "let's have a god who likes to party" - disappear fear ] From adrian@enfusion-group.com Fri Jan 10 02:51:31 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: gtasage.org-gtasage-members@gtasage.org Received: (qmail 29235 invoked by uid 500); 9 Jan 2003 21:51:31 -0500 Date: Thu, 9 Jan 2003 21:51:31 -0500 From: Adrian Chung To: gtasage-members@gtasage.org Subject: Re: [gtaSAGE-members] Apache/mod_ssl and IE problems. Message-ID: <20030110025130.GJ4277@enfusion-group.com> Mail-Followup-To: gtasage-members@gtasage.org References: <20030110022908.GG4277@enfusion-group.com> <1042166605.1050.36.camel@jupiter.acf.aquezada.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <1042166605.1050.36.camel@jupiter.acf.aquezada.com> User-Agent: Mutt/1.4i X-Operating-System: Linux 2.4.18-19.7.xsmp i686 Organization: Enfusion Group Sender: gtasage-members-admin@gtasage.org Errors-To: gtasage-members-admin@gtasage.org X-BeenThere: gtasage-members@gtasage.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: aligning system and network administrators in the greater Toronto area. List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: On Thu, Jan 09, 2003 at 09:43:25PM -0500, Julian C. Dunn wrote: > On Thu, 2003-01-09 at 21:29, Adrian Chung wrote: > > Has anyone ever experienced problems with IE and Apache/mod_ssl? > > > > > --------add this to httpd.conf.ssl ------------- > > SSLProtocol all -SSLv3 > > ---------------------------------------------- > > > > and the following to horde.conf (in Directory section) > > > > SetEnvIf User-Agent ".*MSIE.*" nokeepalive ssl-unclean-shutdown > > downgrade-1.0 force-response-1.0 > > > > I'm going to try it out now, but thought I'd ask if anyone's been down > > this road before. > > Yes, I've been down this road before. Those hacks will work... sort of. > However, the SSL implementation in certain versions of IE is > fundamentally broken. No amount of hackery can fix the fact that you > will probably continue to have problems. > > If you search the mod_ssl-users mailing list you will probably find many > folks saying the same thing. Hmm, somehow that doesn't surprise me. Oh well, in any case, I've only added the SetEnvIf directive at the moment, and it *seems* to have fixed my immediate problem, although it's so sporadic and random that I'll have to wait a few days to know better. :) Hopefully at least in the most recent and patched versions of IE the brokenness isn't quite as bad... -- Adrian Chung (adrian at enfusion-group dot com) http://www.enfusion-group.com/~adrian/ GPG Fingerprint: C620 C8EA 86BA 79CC 384C E7BE A10C 353B 919D 1A17 [gambit.enfusion-group.com] 9:47pm up 5 days, 18:14, 11 users From adrian@enfusion-group.com Fri Jan 10 02:53:48 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: gtasage.org-gtasage-members@gtasage.org Received: (qmail 29393 invoked by uid 500); 9 Jan 2003 21:53:48 -0500 Date: Thu, 9 Jan 2003 21:53:48 -0500 From: Adrian Chung To: gtasage-members@gtasage.org Subject: Re: [gtaSAGE-members] meetings Message-ID: <20030110025348.GK4277@enfusion-group.com> Mail-Followup-To: gtasage-members@gtasage.org References: <1042160884.294.19.camel@skippy> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <1042160884.294.19.camel@skippy> User-Agent: Mutt/1.4i X-Operating-System: Linux 2.4.18-19.7.xsmp i686 Organization: Enfusion Group Sender: gtasage-members-admin@gtasage.org Errors-To: gtasage-members-admin@gtasage.org X-BeenThere: gtasage-members@gtasage.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: aligning system and network administrators in the greater Toronto area. List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: On Thu, Jan 09, 2003 at 08:08:04PM -0500, Duane Bedeau wrote: > Got a question... > > Do the gtasage members have any plans for a real live in person meeting > of some nature? It'd be helpful and easier to discuss certain things... > Since we're GTA based, it'd be easy to arrange as well... Although some of us (me) are in the far reaches of the GTA, and work shift work, so static meeting times are difficult. :) > Sounds like a win-win situation no? If people are interested, we should get together at some point, to see who's who, and chat... -- Adrian Chung (adrian at enfusion-group dot com) http://www.enfusion-group.com/~adrian/ GPG Fingerprint: C620 C8EA 86BA 79CC 384C E7BE A10C 353B 919D 1A17 [gambit.enfusion-group.com] 9:52pm up 5 days, 18:18, 11 users From angelo.genovese@cryptologic.com Fri Jan 10 14:48:06 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: gtasage.org-gtasage-members@gtasage.org Received: (qmail 24713 invoked by uid 1004); 10 Jan 2003 09:48:06 -0500 Received: from angelo.genovese@cryptologic.com by enfusion-group.com with qmail-scanner; 10 Jan 2003 14:48:06 -0000 Received: from UNKNOWN (206.235.255.230, claiming to be "postoffice.cryptologic.com") by gambit.enfusion-group.com with SMTP id smtpdXVGcNx; Fri, 10 Jan 2003 09:48:02 EST Received: from angelog.cryptologic.com (73.cryptologic.com [10.1.1.73]) by postoffice.cryptologic.com (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h0AElxK14183; Fri, 10 Jan 2003 09:47:59 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from angelo.genovese@cryptologic.com) Subject: Re: [gtaSAGE-members] meetings From: Angelo Genovese To: Adrian Chung Cc: gtasage-members@gtasage.org In-Reply-To: <20030110025348.GK4277@enfusion-group.com> References: <1042160884.294.19.camel@skippy> <20030110025348.GK4277@enfusion-group.com> Content-Type: text/plain Organization: Cryptologic Message-Id: <1042192071.29298.106.camel@angelog.cryptologic.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Ximian Evolution 1.2.0 Date: 10 Jan 2003 04:47:52 -0500 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-1.5 required=5.0 tests=DATE_IN_PAST_03_06,IN_REP_TO,NOSPAM_INC,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT, REFERENCES,SIGNATURE_SHORT_DENSE,SPAM_PHRASE_00_01 version=2.43-cvs X-Spam-Level: Sender: gtasage-members-admin@gtasage.org Errors-To: gtasage-members-admin@gtasage.org X-BeenThere: gtasage-members@gtasage.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: aligning system and network administrators in the greater Toronto area. List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Hi, I've only been on the list for a few weeks, but I think the idea of a meet is a great one. As long as it's not on the second Tuesday of the month I'm in, The GTABug has their meet on that day (so does tlug) and I wouldn't miss pizza, beer and Unix for anything ;), I'd also expect at least some overlap in membership between the three groups. Cheers Angelo Genovese On Thu, 2003-01-09 at 21:53, Adrian Chung wrote: > On Thu, Jan 09, 2003 at 08:08:04PM -0500, Duane Bedeau wrote: > > Got a question... > > > > Do the gtasage members have any plans for a real live in person meeting > > of some nature? It'd be helpful and easier to discuss certain things... > > Since we're GTA based, it'd be easy to arrange as well... > > Although some of us (me) are in the far reaches of the GTA, and work > shift work, so static meeting times are difficult. :) > > > Sounds like a win-win situation no? > > If people are interested, we should get together at some point, to see > who's who, and chat... > > -- > Adrian Chung (adrian at enfusion-group dot com) > http://www.enfusion-group.com/~adrian/ > GPG Fingerprint: C620 C8EA 86BA 79CC 384C E7BE A10C 353B 919D 1A17 > [gambit.enfusion-group.com] 9:52pm up 5 days, 18:18, 11 users > > _______________________________________________ > gtaSAGE-members mailing list > gtaSAGE-members@gtasage.org > http://lists.enfusion-group.com/mailman/listinfo/gtasage-members -- Angelo Genovese Cryptologic From lsorense@calum.csclub.uwaterloo.ca Tue Jan 14 20:08:19 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: gtasage.org-gtasage-members@gtasage.org Received: (qmail 11050 invoked by uid 1004); 14 Jan 2003 15:08:19 -0500 Received: from lsorense@calum.csclub.uwaterloo.ca by enfusion-group.com with qmail-scanner; 14 Jan 2003 20:08:19 -0000 Received: from perpugilliam.csclub.uwaterloo.ca (129.97.134.31) by gambit.enfusion-group.com with SMTP id smtpdBNgMRV; Tue, 14 Jan 2003 15:08:16 EST Received: by perpugilliam.csclub.uwaterloo.ca (Postfix, from userid 3120) id 9FEFE10AC97; Tue, 14 Jan 2003 15:06:48 -0500 (EST) Date: Tue, 14 Jan 2003 15:06:48 -0500 To: Dussty Cc: gtasage-members@gtasage.org Subject: Re: [gtaSAGE-members] (no subject) Message-ID: <20030114200647.GB6696@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> References: <007d01c2b724$c9f99d40$0301a8c0@dussty> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <007d01c2b724$c9f99d40$0301a8c0@dussty> User-Agent: Mutt/1.4i From: lsorense@csclub.uwaterloo.ca (Lennart Sorensen) X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-2.2 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO,REFERENCES,SPAM_PHRASE_00_01,USER_AGENT, USER_AGENT_MUTT version=2.43-cvs X-Spam-Level: Sender: gtasage-members-admin@gtasage.org Errors-To: gtasage-members-admin@gtasage.org X-BeenThere: gtasage-members@gtasage.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: aligning system and network administrators in the greater Toronto area. List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: On Wed, Jan 08, 2003 at 06:46:55AM -0800, Dussty wrote: > Am uncertain as to whether this is the correct platform for this, but forgive me if I need >redirection > I Need to make contact with a Debian Linux Network System Administrator who knows decidedly more than myself for collaboration on our system's growth > Every listing for Linux consultants turns up someone who is writing c++, java or software, when what is needed is someone who knows ipchains and freeswan. > I dont know if I even qualify to join gtaSage I have played with freeswan in the past, but ended up not using it due to limitations of a cisco firewall at the other end of the connection. ssh became the solution instead. Freeswan does work fine as far as I can tell though. As for ipchains, I gave up on those in favour of iptables a few years ago. As for Debian, I won't use anything else. Len Sorensen From adrian@enfusion-group.com Sun Mar 02 00:00:26 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: gtasage.org-gtasage-members@gtasage.org Received: (qmail 26860 invoked by uid 500); 1 Mar 2003 19:00:26 -0500 Date: Sat, 1 Mar 2003 19:00:26 -0500 From: Adrian Chung To: gtasage-members@gtasage.org Message-ID: <20030302000026.GG15734@enfusion-group.com> Mail-Followup-To: gtasage-members@gtasage.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.4i X-Operating-System: Linux 2.4.18-24.7.xsmp i686 Organization: Enfusion Group Subject: [gtaSAGE-members] Mitigating SYN Floods. Sender: gtasage-members-admin@gtasage.org Errors-To: gtasage-members-admin@gtasage.org X-BeenThere: gtasage-members@gtasage.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: aligning system and network administrators in the greater Toronto area. List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Anyone have any good links to devices or measures commonly used in mitigating SYN floods? Looking for something that might be able to handle a flood of 200,000 SYN packets per second. -- Adrian Chung (adrian at enfusion-group dot com) http://www.enfusion-group.com/~adrian/ GPG Fingerprint: C620 C8EA 86BA 79CC 384C E7BE A10C 353B 919D 1A17 [gambit.enfusion-group.com] 6:58pm up 24 days, 12:57, 15 users From bcole@plumcom.ca Sat Mar 22 22:44:10 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: gtasage.org-gtasage-members@gtasage.org Received: (qmail 32070 invoked by uid 1004); 22 Mar 2003 17:44:10 -0500 Received: from bcole@plumcom.ca by enfusion-group.com with qmail-scanner; 22 Mar 2003 22:44:10 -0000 Received: from virtual.express.webdns.net (66.48.93.8, claiming to be "plumcom.ca") by gambit.enfusion-group.com with SMTP id smtpdWL36Fd; Sat, 22 Mar 2003 17:44:09 EST Received: from BruceNB [24.103.136.2] by plumcom.ca with ESMTP (SMTPD32-7.13) id A9DE26200C6; Sat, 22 Mar 2003 17:55:26 -0500 Reply-To: From: "Bruce Cole at plumcom.ca" To: Date: Sat, 22 Mar 2003 17:43:35 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_03F7_01C2F09A.8FF58FA0" X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Importance: Normal Subject: [gtaSAGE-members] Real World Linux Conference Toronto April 28-30, 2003 Sender: gtasage-members-admin@gtasage.org Errors-To: gtasage-members-admin@gtasage.org X-BeenThere: gtasage-members@gtasage.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: aligning system and network administrators in the greater Toronto area. List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_03F7_01C2F09A.8FF58FA0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit SAGE is an association sponsor of Real World Linux and is scheduled to have a booth in the show, representing SAGE worldwide. You are invited to register for the trade show for free, using Code A220 in box 9. To receive your 10% discount and attend any paid conference sessions enter GROUP CODE A220 in the group code box at the beginning of the registration form. (www.realworldlinux.com) REGISTER TODAY AND SAVE Early Bird Conference Discount Expires April 7, 2003 Don't miss this opportunity to experience best-of-breed Linux products and solutions - Trade Show free of charge! Real World Linux GO TO: www.realworldlinux.com Conference and trade show focusing on the Linux operating system April 28th –30th, Metro Toronto Convention Centre, Toronto, Canada a.. Learn How To Lower Your IT Enterprise Costs with Linux b.. See demonstrations of the Latest Linux Applications & Solutions c.. Visit 70 Companies in the Trade Show Hall d.. Hear About Today’s Successful Linux Implementations Real World Linux Conference & Expo is Canada’s only national, comprehensive event focusing on Linux and open source operating systems, a lower cost alternative to today’s proprietary platforms. Real World Linux is Canada’s largest such exhibition and conference, expected to attract more than 2,000 visitors who will meet in excess of 70 exhibiting companies on the trade show floor and take in 40 industry related seminars, tutorials and keynote addresses. Real World Linux Conference and Expo provides a unique opportunity for senior technology executives, IT professionals and developers/VARs in business, government and education to learn about Linux / Open Source and Embedded Systems. Recognized experts from across North America will conduct comprehensive tutorials, seminars and keynote addresses that will enhance participants’ understanding of the critical elements of Open Source to help them make more qualified and educated buying decisions. At Real World Linux, attendees will connect with one of the largest communities of acknowledged Linux professionals ever assembled in Canada. Real World Linux offers an array of issue-specific sessions to a broad spectrum of professionals - from those just beginning to investigate the value of investing in Linux / Open Source to those in the process of integrating and implementing the system. REAL WORLD LINUX CONFERENCE & EXPO Tutorials: Monday, April 28th 9:00 a.m. - 4:15 p.m. Conference: Tuesday, April 29th Wednesday, April 30th 9:00 a.m. - 5:15 p.m. 9:00 a.m. - 5:15 p.m. Trade Show: Tuesday, April 29th Wednesday, April 30th 11:00 a.m. - 6:00 p.m. 11:00 a.m. - 5:00 p.m. Conference sessions are strategically organized in easy to navigate tracks – Visionary Series, CIO Forum, Linux / Open Source Executive Summit, Enterprise Linux Solutions, Linux for System Administration and Practical Linux for Business, Government, Education and Developers / VARs. Many of the seminars at the Conference are actual case studies and current real-world situations. They are presented by representatives of such noted companies as Mark’s Work Wearhouse, Amazon.com, IDC Canada and the University of Mississippi. The Tutorials on Monday, April 28th are eleven in-depth sessions for business, enterprise, education and developers, led by specialists from Sun Microsystems, the University of Missouri and IBM. A Conference Visionary Series will feature expert presenters from Oracle Corporation, Ximian and Zeus Technology. Two senior strategic management tracks - Linux CIO Forum and Linux/Open Source Executive Summit - will be presented by leaders in the IT industry. The Linux/Open Source Executive Summit is sponsored by IDC Canada and is designed for senior decision makers. IDC senior consultants will conduct several presentations at the Summit. Each trade show day at 10:00 a.m., senior executives from major industry corporations will deliver keynote presentations. On Tuesday, Martin Fink, Vice-President and CTO of Business Critical Systems, Hewlett-Packard speaks on The Business and Economics of Linux and Open Source. Then on Wednesday, Rick Fuchs, VP Strategy & Operations, eBusiness On Demand, IBM will address Real World e-business on Demand. Real World Linux is sponsored by IBM Canada, HP Canada, Sun Microsystems Canada, Oracle Corporation, Computer Associates, IDC Canada and Linux Professional Institute, and is supported by NaSPA, IEEE, NewTLUG, CLUE, Communitech, OSPE, SAGE, SMART Toronto, YTA and CANARIE. Premier media sponsor: ComputerWorld. Other media sponsors include: Computer Dealer News, Computing Canada, Daemon News, EDGE, Linux Journal, Linux Magazine, OPEN, Silicon Valley North, Technology in Government. For more information, including full seminar details and costs, visit the website at www.realworldlinux.com ------=_NextPart_000_03F7_01C2F09A.8FF58FA0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

SAGE is an association sponsor of Real World Linux = and is=20 scheduled to have a booth in the show, representing SAGE = worldwide. You=20 are invited to register for the trade show for free, using = Code A220=20 in box 9. To receive your 10% discount=20 and attend any paid conference sessions enter GROUP CODE A220 = in the=20 group code box at the beginning of the registration form. (www.realworldlinux.com)=

REGISTER TODAY AND=20 SAVE
Early Bird Conference = Discount=20 Expires April 7, 2003
Don't miss this = opportunity=20 to experience best-of-breed
Linux products and = solutions -=20 Trade Show free of charge!

Real World Linux
GO TO: = www.realworldlinux.com

Conference and trade show focusing on the = Linux=20 operating system
April 28th =9630th, Metro Toronto = Convention=20 Centre, Toronto, Canada

  • Learn How To Lower Your IT = Enterprise=20 Costs with Linux
  • See demonstrations of the = Latest Linux=20 Applications & Solutions
  • Visit 70 Companies in the = Trade Show=20 Hall
  • Hear About Today=92s = Successful Linux=20 Implementations =

Real=20 World Linux Conference & Expo is Canada=92s only = national,=20 comprehensive event focusing on Linux and open source = operating=20 systems, a lower cost alternative to today=92s proprietary = platforms.=20 Real World Linux is Canada=92s largest such exhibition and = conference,=20 expected to attract more than 2,000 visitors who will meet = in excess=20 of 70 exhibiting companies on the trade show floor and take = in 40=20 industry related seminars, tutorials and keynote addresses.=20

Real World Linux Conference and Expo provides a = unique=20 opportunity for senior technology executives, IT = professionals and=20 developers/VARs in business, government and=20 education to learn about Linux / Open Source and = Embedded=20 Systems. Recognized experts from across North America will = conduct=20 comprehensive tutorials, seminars and keynote addresses that = will=20 enhance participants=92 understanding of the critical = elements of Open=20 Source to help them make more qualified and educated buying=20 decisions.

At Real World Linux, attendees will = connect with=20 one of the largest communities of acknowledged Linux = professionals=20 ever assembled in Canada. Real World Linux offers an array = of=20 issue-specific sessions to a broad spectrum of professionals = - from=20 those just beginning to investigate the value of investing = in Linux=20 / Open Source to those in the process of integrating and=20 implementing the system.

REAL WORLD LINUX CONFERENCE = &=20 EXPO
Tutorials:  Monday, April 28th 9:00 a.m. - 4:15 p.m.
Conference: = Tuesday, April 29th
Wednesday, = April 30th=20 		9:00 a.m. - 5:15 p.m.
9:00 a.m. - = 5:15=20 p.m.

Trade Show: =

Tuesday, April 29th
Wednesday, April 30th 		11:00 a.m. - 6:00 p.m.
11:00 a.m. - = 5:00=20 = p.m.


Conference sessions are strategically = organized in easy=20 to navigate tracks =96 Visionary Series, CIO Forum, Linux / = Open=20 Source Executive Summit, Enterprise Linux Solutions, Linux = for=20 System Administration and Practical Linux for Business, = Government,=20 Education and Developers / VARs. Many of the seminars at the = Conference are actual case studies and current real-world=20 situations. They are presented by representatives of such = noted=20 companies as Mark=92s Work Wearhouse, Amazon.com, IDC Canada = and the=20 University of Mississippi.

The = Tutorials on=20 Monday, April 28th are eleven in-depth sessions for = business,=20 enterprise, education and developers, led by specialists = from Sun=20 Microsystems, the University of Missouri and IBM.

A=20 Conference Visionary Series will feature = expert=20 presenters from Oracle Corporation, Ximian and Zeus = Technology. Two=20 senior strategic management tracks - Linux CIO Forum = and=20 Linux/Open Source Executive Summit - will be = presented by=20 leaders in the IT industry. The Linux/Open Source Executive = Summit=20 is sponsored by IDC Canada and is designed for senior = decision=20 makers. IDC senior consultants will conduct several = presentations at=20 the Summit.

Each trade show day at 10:00 a.m., senior = executives from major industry corporations will deliver = keynote=20 presentations. On Tuesday, Martin Fink,=20 Vice-President and CTO of Business Critical Systems, = Hewlett-Packard=20 speaks on The Business and Economics of Linux and Open = Source. Then=20 on Wednesday, Rick Fuchs, VP Strategy & = Operations, eBusiness On Demand, IBM will address Real World = e-business on Demand.

Real World Linux is sponsored = by IBM=20 Canada, HP Canada, Sun Microsystems Canada, Oracle = Corporation,=20 Computer Associates, IDC Canada and Linux Professional = Institute,=20 and is supported by NaSPA, IEEE, NewTLUG, CLUE, Communitech, = OSPE,=20 SAGE, SMART Toronto, YTA and CANARIE. Premier media sponsor: = ComputerWorld. Other media sponsors include: Computer Dealer = News,=20 Computing Canada, Daemon News, EDGE, Linux Journal, Linux = Magazine,=20 OPEN, Silicon Valley North, Technology in Government.
For = more=20 information, including full seminar details and costs, visit = the=20 website at
www.realworldlinux.com

 

 
------=_NextPart_000_03F7_01C2F09A.8FF58FA0-- From adrian@enfusion-group.com Sun Mar 23 00:05:58 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: gtasage.org-gtasage-members@gtasage.org Received: (qmail 1774 invoked by uid 500); 22 Mar 2003 19:05:58 -0500 Date: Sat, 22 Mar 2003 19:05:58 -0500 From: Adrian Chung To: gtaSAGE-members Message-ID: <20030323000557.GW443@enfusion-group.com> Mail-Followup-To: gtaSAGE-members Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.4i X-Operating-System: Linux 2.4.18-26.7.xsmp i686 Organization: Enfusion Group Subject: [gtaSAGE-members] Meetings! Sender: gtasage-members-admin@gtasage.org Errors-To: gtasage-members-admin@gtasage.org X-BeenThere: gtasage-members@gtasage.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: aligning system and network administrators in the greater Toronto area. List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: I think it would be a good idea to get some monthly meetings happening. Any ideas on a time or place? -- Adrian Chung (adrian at enfusion-group dot com) http://www.enfusion-group.com/~adrian/ GPG Fingerprint: C620 C8EA 86BA 79CC 384C E7BE A10C 353B 919D 1A17 [gambit.enfusion-group.com] 7:04pm up 13 days, 10:41, 16 users From duane@dbsconsulting.ca Sun Mar 23 03:48:00 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: gtasage.org-gtasage-members@gtasage.org Received: (qmail 7503 invoked by uid 1004); 22 Mar 2003 22:48:00 -0500 Received: from duane@dbsconsulting.ca by enfusion-group.com with qmail-scanner; 23 Mar 2003 03:48:00 -0000 Received: from CPE0002b328957b-CM0010951569b2.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com (24.192.81.135, claiming to be "skippy.duanebedeau.com") by gambit.enfusion-group.com with SMTP id smtpdjkIjRm; Sat, 22 Mar 2003 22:47:58 EST Received: from skippy.duanebedeau.com (IDENT:1000@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by skippy.duanebedeau.com (8.12.4/8.12.4) with ESMTP id h2N3luHC007002 for ; Sat, 22 Mar 2003 22:47:56 -0500 Received: (from duane@localhost) by skippy.duanebedeau.com (8.12.4/8.12.4/Submit) id h2N3luKW007001; Sat, 22 Mar 2003 22:47:56 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: skippy.duanebedeau.com: duane set sender to duane@dbsconsulting.ca using -f Subject: Re: [gtaSAGE-members] Meetings! From: Duane Bedeau To: gtaSAGE-members In-Reply-To: <20030323000557.GW443@enfusion-group.com> References: <20030323000557.GW443@enfusion-group.com> Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Ximian Evolution 1.0.7 Date: 22 Mar 2003 22:47:56 -0500 Message-Id: <1048391276.570.30.camel@skippy> Mime-Version: 1.0 Sender: gtasage-members-admin@gtasage.org Errors-To: gtasage-members-admin@gtasage.org X-BeenThere: gtasage-members@gtasage.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: aligning system and network administrators in the greater Toronto area. List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: On Sat, 2003-03-22 at 19:05, Adrian Chung wrote: > I think it would be a good idea to get some monthly meetings > happening. > > Any ideas on a time or place? I mentioned this a while back... didn't get anything positive however... I would vote for a place downtown though, perhaps at or near either Ryerson or UofT > -- > Adrian Chung (adrian at enfusion-group dot com) > http://www.enfusion-group.com/~adrian/ > GPG Fingerprint: C620 C8EA 86BA 79CC 384C E7BE A10C 353B 919D 1A17 > [gambit.enfusion-group.com] 7:04pm up 13 days, 10:41, 16 users > > _______________________________________________ > gtaSAGE-members mailing list > gtaSAGE-members@gtasage.org > http://lists.enfusion-group.com/mailman/listinfo/gtasage-members -- Duane Bedeau DBS Consulting Services Tel:(416)782-3514 http://www.dbsconsulting.ca Email:duane@dbsconsulting.ca From jdunn@aquezada.com Sun Mar 23 04:12:40 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: gtasage.org-gtasage-members@gtasage.org Received: (qmail 8232 invoked by uid 1004); 22 Mar 2003 23:12:40 -0500 Received: from jdunn@aquezada.com by enfusion-group.com with qmail-scanner; 23 Mar 2003 04:12:40 -0000 Received: from vpn.verticalscope.com (209.82.14.133, claiming to be "aphrodite.aquezada.com") by gambit.enfusion-group.com with SMTP id smtpdaC4Cbq; Sat, 22 Mar 2003 23:12:35 EST Received: from jupiter.acf.aquezada.com (jupiter.acf.aquezada.com [192.168.5.5]) by aphrodite.aquezada.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 36B2148E for ; Sat, 22 Mar 2003 22:23:20 -0500 (EST) Received: by jupiter.acf.aquezada.com (Postfix, from userid 1001) id 0B1AB5330E; Sat, 22 Mar 2003 23:12:27 -0500 (EST) Subject: Re: [gtaSAGE-members] Meetings! From: "Julian C. Dunn" To: gtasage-members@gtasage.org In-Reply-To: <1048391276.570.30.camel@skippy> References: <20030323000557.GW443@enfusion-group.com> <1048391276.570.30.camel@skippy> Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Organization: Aquezada Productions Message-Id: <1048392746.26819.19.camel@jupiter.acf.aquezada.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Ximian Evolution 1.2.3 Date: 22 Mar 2003 23:12:26 -0500 Sender: gtasage-members-admin@gtasage.org Errors-To: gtasage-members-admin@gtasage.org X-BeenThere: gtasage-members@gtasage.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: aligning system and network administrators in the greater Toronto area. List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: On Sat, 2003-03-22 at 22:47, Duane Bedeau wrote: > On Sat, 2003-03-22 at 19:05, Adrian Chung wrote: > > I think it would be a good idea to get some monthly meetings > > happening. > > > > Any ideas on a time or place? > > I mentioned this a while back... didn't get anything positive however... > I would vote for a place downtown though, perhaps at or near either > Ryerson or UofT GTABUG meets the first Tuesday of every month at a pizza place downtown. Conceivably GTASAGE could do the same thing, unless there were formal presentations to be had. Are we meeting just to chat, or did you have more formal agenda items in mind, Adrian? - Julian -- [ Julian C. Dunn * ] [ WWW: http://www.aquezada.com/staff/julian/ * PGP: 0xFDC205B9 ] [ "let's have a god who likes to party" - disappear fear ] From nistor@snickers.org Sun Mar 23 04:13:40 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: gtasage.org-gtasage-members@gtasage.org Received: (qmail 8353 invoked by uid 1004); 22 Mar 2003 23:13:40 -0500 Received: from nistor@snickers.org by enfusion-group.com with qmail-scanner; 23 Mar 2003 04:13:40 -0000 Received: from 220.40.220-216.q9.net (216.220.40.220, claiming to be "spike.snickers.org") by gambit.enfusion-group.com with SMTP id smtpdoefncz; Sat, 22 Mar 2003 23:13:36 EST Received: by spike.snickers.org (Postfix, from userid 1000) id 27234F936; Sat, 22 Mar 2003 23:13:34 -0500 (EST) Date: Sat, 22 Mar 2003 23:13:34 -0500 (EST) From: Jon Nistor To: Duane Bedeau Cc: gtaSAGE-members Subject: Re: [gtaSAGE-members] Meetings! In-Reply-To: <1048391276.570.30.camel@skippy> Message-ID: <20030322231309.U50438@spike.snickers.org> References: <20030323000557.GW443@enfusion-group.com> <1048391276.570.30.camel@skippy> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: gtasage-members-admin@gtasage.org Errors-To: gtasage-members-admin@gtasage.org X-BeenThere: gtasage-members@gtasage.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: aligning system and network administrators in the greater Toronto area. List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: The crepe place right accross the street from much music. On Sat, 22 Mar 2003, Duane Bedeau wrote: ||On Sat, 2003-03-22 at 19:05, Adrian Chung wrote: ||> I think it would be a good idea to get some monthly meetings ||> happening. ||> ||> Any ideas on a time or place? || ||I mentioned this a while back... didn't get anything positive however... ||I would vote for a place downtown though, perhaps at or near either ||Ryerson or UofT || ||> -- ||> Adrian Chung (adrian at enfusion-group dot com) ||> http://www.enfusion-group.com/~adrian/ ||> GPG Fingerprint: C620 C8EA 86BA 79CC 384C E7BE A10C 353B 919D 1A17 ||> [gambit.enfusion-group.com] 7:04pm up 13 days, 10:41, 16 users ||> ||> _______________________________________________ ||> gtaSAGE-members mailing list ||> gtaSAGE-members@gtasage.org ||> http://lists.enfusion-group.com/mailman/listinfo/gtasage-members ||-- ||Duane Bedeau ||DBS Consulting Services Tel:(416)782-3514 ||http://www.dbsconsulting.ca Email:duane@dbsconsulting.ca ||_______________________________________________ ||gtaSAGE-members mailing list ||gtaSAGE-members@gtasage.org ||http://lists.enfusion-group.com/mailman/listinfo/gtasage-members || ______ Jon (nistor@snickers.org) - iioiiooo.oiiiiiio.oioiioio.ooooooio : EOF : From adrian@enfusion-group.com Sun Mar 23 12:55:40 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: gtasage.org-gtasage-members@gtasage.org Received: (qmail 30409 invoked by uid 500); 23 Mar 2003 07:55:40 -0500 Date: Sun, 23 Mar 2003 07:55:40 -0500 From: Adrian Chung To: gtasage-members@gtasage.org Subject: Re: [gtaSAGE-members] Meetings! Message-ID: <20030323125539.GA443@enfusion-group.com> Mail-Followup-To: gtasage-members@gtasage.org References: <20030323000557.GW443@enfusion-group.com> <1048391276.570.30.camel@skippy> <1048392746.26819.19.camel@jupiter.acf.aquezada.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <1048392746.26819.19.camel@jupiter.acf.aquezada.com> User-Agent: Mutt/1.4i X-Operating-System: Linux 2.4.18-26.7.xsmp i686 Organization: Enfusion Group Sender: gtasage-members-admin@gtasage.org Errors-To: gtasage-members-admin@gtasage.org X-BeenThere: gtasage-members@gtasage.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: aligning system and network administrators in the greater Toronto area. List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: On Sat, Mar 22, 2003 at 11:12:26PM -0500, Julian C. Dunn wrote: [...] > GTABUG meets the first Tuesday of every month at a pizza place downtown. > Conceivably GTASAGE could do the same thing, unless there were formal > presentations to be had. Are we meeting just to chat, or did you have > more formal agenda items in mind, Adrian? For the moment, informal would be cool, mainly just so that we can get together, meet and chat. Eventually, I'd like to do something more formal, but there's a lot more involved in having that happen! I'll see if I can find out what's involved in getting some meeting space at Ryerson, or U of T. If anyone else has ideas about this already, let us know. :) -- Adrian Chung (adrian at enfusion-group dot com) http://www.enfusion-group.com/~adrian/ GPG Fingerprint: C620 C8EA 86BA 79CC 384C E7BE A10C 353B 919D 1A17 [gambit.enfusion-group.com] 7:52am up 13 days, 23:30, 15 users From tmh@whitefang.com Sun Mar 23 14:08:33 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: gtasage.org-gtasage-members@gtasage.org Received: (qmail 32278 invoked by uid 1004); 23 Mar 2003 09:08:32 -0500 Received: from tmh@whitefang.com by enfusion-group.com with qmail-scanner; 23 Mar 2003 14:08:32 -0000 Received: from helena.whitefang.com (216.254.175.50) by gambit.enfusion-group.com with SMTP id smtpdCm090G; Sun, 23 Mar 2003 09:08:22 EST Received: (qmail 15285 invoked from network); 23 Mar 2003 14:08:42 -0000 Received: from helena.whitefang.com (216.254.175.50) by 0 with SMTP; 23 Mar 2003 14:08:42 -0000 Date: Sun, 23 Mar 2003 09:08:41 -0500 (EST) From: Thamer Al-Harbash X-X-Sender: shadows@helena.whitefang.com To: gtasage-members@gtasage.org Subject: Re: [gtaSAGE-members] Meetings! In-Reply-To: <20030323125539.GA443@enfusion-group.com> Message-ID: References: <20030323000557.GW443@enfusion-group.com> <1048391276.570.30.camel@skippy> <1048392746.26819.19.camel@jupiter.acf.aquezada.com> <20030323125539.GA443@enfusion-group.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: gtasage-members-admin@gtasage.org Errors-To: gtasage-members-admin@gtasage.org X-BeenThere: gtasage-members@gtasage.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: aligning system and network administrators in the greater Toronto area. List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: On Sun, 23 Mar 2003, Adrian Chung wrote: > For the moment, informal would be cool, mainly just so that we can get > together, meet and chat. I have one question: I was told by a TLUG member (Bill Thanis) that if I ever show up to a TLUG meeting I'll be handcuffed and thrown across the pristine white floor, read my rights as "Bad Boyz" plays in the background. I am concerned if this is the case at GTASAGE? Should I bring my attorney? A boom box perhaps with "Bad Boyz" ready to play? > Eventually, I'd like to do something more formal, but there's a lot > more involved in having that happen! I agree the GTASAGE mailing list is dead. Maybe pizza will change this; I suggest beer though. > I'll see if I can find out what's involved in getting some meeting > space at Ryerson, or U of T. If anyone else has ideas about this > already, let us know. :) Doing one at Ryerson or U of T may make it too formal. You'd need presentations and what not. I'd attend something informal myself for now. BTW, I hear a CNOG (Canadian Network Operators' Group) is starting up. -- Thamer Al-Harbash http://www.whitefang.com/ (if (> pressure too-much-pressure) 'play-ac2 'work) From drew@xyzzy.dhs.org Sun Mar 23 14:13:46 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: gtasage.org-gtasage-members@gtasage.org Received: (qmail 32529 invoked by uid 500); 23 Mar 2003 09:13:46 -0500 Resent-Message-ID: <20030323141346.32528.qmail@enfusion-group.com> Delivered-To: adrian@enfusion-group.com Received: (qmail 31972 invoked by uid 89); 23 Mar 2003 08:56:02 -0500 Delivered-To: gtasage.org-gtasage@gtasage.org Received: (qmail 31962 invoked by uid 1004); 23 Mar 2003 08:56:02 -0500 Received: from drew@xyzzy.dhs.org by enfusion-group.com with qmail-scanner; 23 Mar 2003 13:56:02 -0000 Received: from H98.C214.tor.velocet.net (216.138.214.98, claiming to be "xyzzy.dhs.org") by gambit.enfusion-group.com with SMTP id smtpdn79Uiw; Sun, 23 Mar 2003 08:56:01 EST Received: from xyzzy.dhs.org (quux.lan.internal [192.168.1.6]) by xyzzy.dhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5DA716EF7 for ; Sun, 23 Mar 2003 08:56:00 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <3E7DBEBF.7030904@xyzzy.dhs.org> Date: Sun, 23 Mar 2003 09:03:43 -0500 From: "Andrew G. Hammond" User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win 9x 4.90; en-US; rv:1.1a) Gecko/20020611 X-Accept-Language: en-ca, en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: gtasage@gtasage.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.5 required=5.0 tests=SPAM_PHRASE_00_01,USER_AGENT,USER_AGENT_MOZILLA_UA, X_ACCEPT_LANG version=2.43 X-Spam-Level: Resent-From: Adrian Chung Resent-Date: Sun, 23 Mar 2003 09:13:46 -0500 Resent-To: gtasage-members@gtasage.org Subject: [gtaSAGE-members] meetings Sender: gtasage-members-admin@gtasage.org Errors-To: gtasage-members-admin@gtasage.org X-BeenThere: gtasage-members@gtasage.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: aligning system and network administrators in the greater Toronto area. List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: When you guys get together on a meeting date, I'd like to attend. I'd also like to suggest that the 2nd week of the month while trendy is already a pretty busy one for geeks: TLUG, GTABUG and Unix Unanimous all happen on the second Tuesday and/or Wednessday. Drew From tmh@whitefang.com Sun Mar 23 14:28:12 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: gtasage.org-gtasage-members@gtasage.org Received: (qmail 639 invoked by uid 1004); 23 Mar 2003 09:28:12 -0500 Received: from tmh@whitefang.com by enfusion-group.com with qmail-scanner; 23 Mar 2003 14:28:12 -0000 Received: from helena.whitefang.com (216.254.175.50) by gambit.enfusion-group.com with SMTP id smtpd5pfmiV; Sun, 23 Mar 2003 09:28:08 EST Received: (qmail 15371 invoked from network); 23 Mar 2003 14:28:28 -0000 Received: from helena.whitefang.com (216.254.175.50) by 0 with SMTP; 23 Mar 2003 14:28:28 -0000 Date: Sun, 23 Mar 2003 09:28:28 -0500 (EST) From: Thamer Al-Harbash X-X-Sender: shadows@helena.whitefang.com To: gtaSAGE-members Subject: Re: [gtaSAGE-members] meetings In-Reply-To: <3E7DBEBF.7030904@xyzzy.dhs.org> Message-ID: References: <3E7DBEBF.7030904@xyzzy.dhs.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: gtasage-members-admin@gtasage.org Errors-To: gtasage-members-admin@gtasage.org X-BeenThere: gtasage-members@gtasage.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: aligning system and network administrators in the greater Toronto area. List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: On Sun, 23 Mar 2003, Andrew G. Hammond wrote: > When you guys get together on a meeting date, I'd like to attend. I'd > also like to suggest that the 2nd week of the month while trendy is > already a pretty busy one for geeks: TLUG, GTABUG and Unix Unanimous all > happen on the second Tuesday and/or Wednessday. If I may: TLUG ---- Smelly people heckling a presenter. Also they've already threatened me with an arrest if I show up. "Where do you want to go today?" GTABUG ------ Don't know how the meetings go but I'd hate to see how Matador behaves in RL. He may actually be more civilized than me and that would cause a metaphysical rift in reality which my mind could not possibly sustain for an extended period of time. Unix Unanimous -------------- I was told on one occassion that it was invite only. Then later I was told by a completely different person that I was too young to attend. The wording used and I quote: "you're not a grey beard yet." We're not missing out on much are we? GTALUG wants to meet too but I think it happens later in the month. I'm going to just consolidate the GTALUG meets and make the T-G group meet there too since the subscriber base is mostly the same. I'm fine attending GTASAGE over one of the three groups mentioned above. Does it really serve the same audience? -- Thamer Al-Harbash http://www.whitefang.com/ (if (> pressure too-much-pressure) 'play-ac2 'work) From adrian@enfusion-group.com Sun Mar 23 15:18:00 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: gtasage.org-gtasage-members@gtasage.org Received: (qmail 2054 invoked by uid 500); 23 Mar 2003 10:18:00 -0500 Date: Sun, 23 Mar 2003 10:18:00 -0500 From: Adrian Chung To: gtaSAGE-members Subject: Re: [gtaSAGE-members] meetings Message-ID: <20030323151800.GA486@enfusion-group.com> Mail-Followup-To: gtaSAGE-members References: <3E7DBEBF.7030904@xyzzy.dhs.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Mutt/1.4i X-Operating-System: Linux 2.4.18-26.7.xsmp i686 Organization: Enfusion Group Sender: gtasage-members-admin@gtasage.org Errors-To: gtasage-members-admin@gtasage.org X-BeenThere: gtasage-members@gtasage.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: aligning system and network administrators in the greater Toronto area. List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: On Sun, Mar 23, 2003 at 09:28:28AM -0500, Thamer Al-Harbash wrote: > On Sun, 23 Mar 2003, Andrew G. Hammond wrote: > > When you guys get together on a meeting date, I'd like to > > attend. I'd also like to suggest that the 2nd week of the month > > while trendy is already a pretty busy one for geeks: TLUG, GTABUG > > and Unix Unanimous all happen on the second Tuesday and/or > > Wednessday. I'm leaning towards a day during the third week of the month, and likely not a Tuesday, since that doesn't work the best for me. [...] > I'm fine attending GTASAGE over one of the three groups mentioned > above. Does it really serve the same audience? I'd imagine that many of the members of the other groups mentioned may also be interested in gtaSAGE, although this group is not intended as a technical support group, and is more of a superset of the other groups. Many of the other groups don't cover network administration to any large degree, outside of what's needed for getting a box up and running on an existing network. I'm not sure how many members of other groups are interested in large-scale network operations, routing protocols, and gear, for example. This group, unlike the others, will also cover administration of Windows-based systems and networks. So this group does serve some of the same audience, but should cater to a larger audience as well. -- Adrian Chung (adrian at enfusion-group dot com) http://www.enfusion-group.com/~adrian/ GPG Fingerprint: C620 C8EA 86BA 79CC 384C E7BE A10C 353B 919D 1A17 [gambit.enfusion-group.com] 9:53am up 14 days, 1:31, 15 users From bcole@plumcom.ca Sun Mar 23 18:14:22 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: gtasage.org-gtasage-members@gtasage.org Received: (qmail 21277 invoked by uid 1004); 23 Mar 2003 13:14:22 -0500 Received: from bcole@plumcom.ca by enfusion-group.com with qmail-scanner; 23 Mar 2003 18:14:22 -0000 Received: from virtual.express.webdns.net (66.48.93.8, claiming to be "plumcom.ca") by gambit.enfusion-group.com with SMTP id smtpdWMHX3O; Sun, 23 Mar 2003 13:14:20 EST Received: from BruceNB [24.103.136.2] by plumcom.ca with ESMTP (SMTPD32-7.13) id AC2F42500AC; Sun, 23 Mar 2003 13:25:51 -0500 Reply-To: From: "Bruce Cole at plumcom.ca" To: "Adrian Chung" , Cc: "Reuben Lando" Subject: RE: [gtaSAGE-members] Meetings! Date: Sun, 23 Mar 2003 13:14:08 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: <20030323125539.GA443@enfusion-group.com> Sender: gtasage-members-admin@gtasage.org Errors-To: gtasage-members-admin@gtasage.org X-BeenThere: gtasage-members@gtasage.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: aligning system and network administrators in the greater Toronto area. List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Hello Adrian I am the producer of Real World Linux, taking place at the MTCC on April 28-30, 2003. There will be a restaurant area set up in the pre-function area at the base of the escalators in front of Hall E on the 800 level of the south building. This is the restaurant area for my show. I would suggest that a table can be designated as a 'meeting' point for gtaSAGE members, or at the SAGE booth. The restaurant is open for coffee, first thing in the morning and runs to mid afternoon. The exhibit hall is open from 11 am to 6 am on Tuesday and 11 am to 5 pm on Wednesday. Registration to the trade show is free, if you register in advance at www.realworldlinux.com . SAGE is hoping to meet local members and has arranged for all SAGE members to receive a 10% discount for all paid conference registrations by using code A220. Hope this helps in getting gtaSAGE together. Kind regards Bruce Cole Conference Producer -----Original Message----- From: gtasage-members-admin@gtasage.org [mailto:gtasage-members-admin@gtasage.org]On Behalf Of Adrian Chung Sent: March 23, 2003 7:56 AM To: gtasage-members@gtasage.org Subject: Re: [gtaSAGE-members] Meetings! On Sat, Mar 22, 2003 at 11:12:26PM -0500, Julian C. Dunn wrote: [...] > GTABUG meets the first Tuesday of every month at a pizza place downtown. > Conceivably GTASAGE could do the same thing, unless there were formal > presentations to be had. Are we meeting just to chat, or did you have > more formal agenda items in mind, Adrian? For the moment, informal would be cool, mainly just so that we can get together, meet and chat. Eventually, I'd like to do something more formal, but there's a lot more involved in having that happen! I'll see if I can find out what's involved in getting some meeting space at Ryerson, or U of T. If anyone else has ideas about this already, let us know. :) -- Adrian Chung (adrian at enfusion-group dot com) http://www.enfusion-group.com/~adrian/ GPG Fingerprint: C620 C8EA 86BA 79CC 384C E7BE A10C 353B 919D 1A17 [gambit.enfusion-group.com] 7:52am up 13 days, 23:30, 15 users _______________________________________________ gtaSAGE-members mailing list gtaSAGE-members@gtasage.org http://lists.enfusion-group.com/mailman/listinfo/gtasage-members From adrian@enfusion-group.com Sun Mar 23 19:03:47 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: gtasage.org-gtasage-members@gtasage.org Received: (qmail 27317 invoked by uid 500); 23 Mar 2003 14:03:47 -0500 Date: Sun, 23 Mar 2003 14:03:47 -0500 From: Adrian Chung To: gtasage-members@gtasage.org Subject: Re: [gtaSAGE-members] Meetings! Message-ID: <20030323190347.GA25053@enfusion-group.com> Mail-Followup-To: gtasage-members@gtasage.org References: <20030323125539.GA443@enfusion-group.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.1i X-Operating-System: Linux 2.4.18-26.7.xsmp i686 Organization: Enfusion Group Sender: gtasage-members-admin@gtasage.org Errors-To: gtasage-members-admin@gtasage.org X-BeenThere: gtasage-members@gtasage.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: aligning system and network administrators in the greater Toronto area. List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Thanks Bruce, On Sun, Mar 23, 2003 at 01:14:08PM -0500, Bruce Cole at plumcom.ca wrote: > I am the producer of Real World Linux, taking place at the MTCC on April > 28-30, 2003. There will be a restaurant area set up in the pre-function area > at the base of the escalators in front of Hall E on the 800 level of the > south building. > > This is the restaurant area for my show. I would suggest that a table can be > designated as a 'meeting' point for gtaSAGE members, or at the SAGE booth. > The restaurant is open for coffee, first thing in the morning and runs to > mid afternoon. The exhibit hall is open from 11 am to 6 am on Tuesday and 11 > am to 5 pm on Wednesday. > > Registration to the trade show is free, if you register in advance at > www.realworldlinux.com . SAGE is hoping to meet local members and has > arranged for all SAGE members to receive a 10% discount for all paid > conference registrations by using code A220. Hope this helps in getting > gtaSAGE together. Is anyone else planning on attending the RWL conference/trade show? I might register, but wasn't planning on attending the conference, and the exhibit hall is open during business hours which may not work out very conveniently for everyone. If poeple wanted to meet during lunch or something for an hour, that could work. -- Adrian Chung (adrian at enfusion-group dot com) http://www.enfusion-group.com/~adrian/ GPG Fingerprint: C620 C8EA 86BA 79CC 384C E7BE A10C 353B 919D 1A17 [gambit.enfusion-group.com] 2:02pm up 14 days, 5:39, 10 users From jdunn@aquezada.com Sun Mar 23 19:21:03 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: gtasage.org-gtasage-members@gtasage.org Received: (qmail 27939 invoked by uid 1004); 23 Mar 2003 14:21:03 -0500 Received: from jdunn@aquezada.com by enfusion-group.com with qmail-scanner; 23 Mar 2003 19:21:03 -0000 Received: from vpn.verticalscope.com (209.82.14.133, claiming to be "aphrodite.aquezada.com") by gambit.enfusion-group.com with SMTP id smtpdffxaoF; Sun, 23 Mar 2003 14:21:00 EST Received: from jupiter.acf.aquezada.com (jupiter.acf.aquezada.com [192.168.5.5]) by aphrodite.aquezada.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id CC27A584 for ; Sun, 23 Mar 2003 10:30:07 -0500 (EST) Received: by jupiter.acf.aquezada.com (Postfix, from userid 1001) id E785A5330F; Sun, 23 Mar 2003 14:20:56 -0500 (EST) Subject: Re: [gtaSAGE-members] Meetings! From: "Julian C. Dunn" To: gtasage-members@gtasage.org In-Reply-To: References: <20030323000557.GW443@enfusion-group.com> <1048391276.570.30.camel@skippy> <1048392746.26819.19.camel@jupiter.acf.aquezada.com> <20030323125539.GA443@enfusion-group.com> Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Organization: Aquezada Productions Message-Id: <1048447256.31047.18.camel@jupiter.acf.aquezada.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Ximian Evolution 1.2.3 Date: 23 Mar 2003 14:20:56 -0500 Sender: gtasage-members-admin@gtasage.org Errors-To: gtasage-members-admin@gtasage.org X-BeenThere: gtasage-members@gtasage.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: aligning system and network administrators in the greater Toronto area. List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: On Sun, 2003-03-23 at 09:08, Thamer Al-Harbash wrote: > On Sun, 23 Mar 2003, Adrian Chung wrote: > > > For the moment, informal would be cool, mainly just so that we can get > > together, meet and chat. > > I have one question: > > I was told by a TLUG member (Bill Thanis) that if I ever show up > to a TLUG meeting I'll be handcuffed and thrown across the > pristine white floor, read my rights as "Bad Boyz" plays in the > background. > > I am concerned if this is the case at GTASAGE? Should I bring my > attorney? A boom box perhaps with "Bad Boyz" ready to play? That depends entirely on your ability to play nice. Your reputation as established on GTABUG precedes you. - Julian -- [ Julian C. Dunn * ] [ WWW: http://www.aquezada.com/staff/julian/ * PGP: 0xFDC205B9 ] [ "let's have a god who likes to party" - disappear fear ] From jdunn@aquezada.com Sun Mar 23 19:26:53 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: gtasage.org-gtasage-members@gtasage.org Received: (qmail 28153 invoked by uid 1004); 23 Mar 2003 14:26:53 -0500 Received: from jdunn@aquezada.com by enfusion-group.com with qmail-scanner; 23 Mar 2003 19:26:53 -0000 Received: from vpn.verticalscope.com (209.82.14.133, claiming to be "aphrodite.aquezada.com") by gambit.enfusion-group.com with SMTP id smtpdbBKp6x; Sun, 23 Mar 2003 14:26:42 EST Received: from jupiter.acf.aquezada.com (jupiter.acf.aquezada.com [192.168.5.5]) by aphrodite.aquezada.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2DBAC49D for ; Sun, 23 Mar 2003 10:34:42 -0500 (EST) Received: by jupiter.acf.aquezada.com (Postfix, from userid 1001) id 2ACDF5330F; Sun, 23 Mar 2003 14:26:40 -0500 (EST) Subject: Re: [gtaSAGE-members] Meetings! From: "Julian C. Dunn" To: gtasage-members@gtasage.org In-Reply-To: <20030323190347.GA25053@enfusion-group.com> References: <20030323125539.GA443@enfusion-group.com> <20030323190347.GA25053@enfusion-group.com> Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Organization: Aquezada Productions Message-Id: <1048447599.31047.21.camel@jupiter.acf.aquezada.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Ximian Evolution 1.2.3 Date: 23 Mar 2003 14:26:40 -0500 Sender: gtasage-members-admin@gtasage.org Errors-To: gtasage-members-admin@gtasage.org X-BeenThere: gtasage-members@gtasage.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: aligning system and network administrators in the greater Toronto area. List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: On Sun, 2003-03-23 at 14:03, Adrian Chung wrote: > Is anyone else planning on attending the RWL conference/trade show? I > might register, but wasn't planning on attending the conference, and > the exhibit hall is open during business hours which may not work out > very conveniently for everyone. I signed up to attend the trade show, however depending on how busy I am I might not be able to make it. If GTASAGE members wanted to meet for lunch for an hour, though, I could probably do that. - Julian -- [ Julian C. Dunn * ] [ WWW: http://www.aquezada.com/staff/julian/ * PGP: 0xFDC205B9 ] [ "let's have a god who likes to party" - disappear fear ] From tmh@whitefang.com Sun Mar 23 19:29:23 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: gtasage.org-gtasage-members@gtasage.org Received: (qmail 28369 invoked by uid 1004); 23 Mar 2003 14:29:23 -0500 Received: from tmh@whitefang.com by enfusion-group.com with qmail-scanner; 23 Mar 2003 19:29:23 -0000 Received: from helena.whitefang.com (216.254.175.50) by gambit.enfusion-group.com with SMTP id smtpd9LNjnT; Sun, 23 Mar 2003 14:29:19 EST Received: (qmail 16649 invoked from network); 23 Mar 2003 19:29:38 -0000 Received: from helena.whitefang.com (216.254.175.50) by 0 with SMTP; 23 Mar 2003 19:29:38 -0000 Date: Sun, 23 Mar 2003 14:29:38 -0500 (EST) From: Thamer Al-Harbash X-X-Sender: shadows@helena.whitefang.com To: gtasage-members@gtasage.org Subject: Re: [gtaSAGE-members] Meetings! In-Reply-To: <20030323190347.GA25053@enfusion-group.com> Message-ID: References: <20030323125539.GA443@enfusion-group.com> <20030323190347.GA25053@enfusion-group.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: gtasage-members-admin@gtasage.org Errors-To: gtasage-members-admin@gtasage.org X-BeenThere: gtasage-members@gtasage.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: aligning system and network administrators in the greater Toronto area. List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: On Sun, 23 Mar 2003, Adrian Chung wrote: > Is anyone else planning on attending the RWL conference/trade show? I've been offered a booth: I've yet to decide whether I want to make something out of it. As you mentioned it happens across business hours so I may decide not to go. I'd meet at the restaurant if I did attend. Since the producer is posting here, is there any reason this wasn't done on a weekend? -- Thamer Al-Harbash http://www.whitefang.com/ (if (> pressure too-much-pressure) 'play-ac2 'work) From bcole@plumcom.ca Sun Mar 23 20:26:33 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: gtasage.org-gtasage-members@gtasage.org Received: (qmail 23185 invoked by uid 1004); 23 Mar 2003 15:26:33 -0500 Received: from bcole@plumcom.ca by enfusion-group.com with qmail-scanner; 23 Mar 2003 20:26:33 -0000 Received: from virtual.express.webdns.net (66.48.93.8, claiming to be "plumcom.ca") by gambit.enfusion-group.com with SMTP id smtpd2BRVb4; Sun, 23 Mar 2003 15:26:25 EST Received: from BruceNB [24.103.136.2] by plumcom.ca with ESMTP (SMTPD32-7.13) id AB2635E00BC; Sun, 23 Mar 2003 15:37:58 -0500 Reply-To: From: "Bruce Cole at plumcom.ca" To: Subject: RE: [gtaSAGE-members] Real World Linux Date: Sun, 23 Mar 2003 15:26:17 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: Sender: gtasage-members-admin@gtasage.org Errors-To: gtasage-members-admin@gtasage.org X-BeenThere: gtasage-members@gtasage.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: aligning system and network administrators in the greater Toronto area. List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Adrian Thank you for your quick reply. Just to clarify, SAGE International will be setting up a display at the event. To answer your other question: it is being held during business hours for the specific reason that this is a Linux Business to Business event for professionals only. Only those individuals that feel it is in their business interest will attend. Bruce Cole -----Original Message----- From: gtasage-members-admin@gtasage.org [mailto:gtasage-members-admin@gtasage.org]On Behalf Of Thamer Al-Harbash Sent: March 23, 2003 2:30 PM To: gtasage-members@gtasage.org Subject: Re: [gtaSAGE-members] Meetings! On Sun, 23 Mar 2003, Adrian Chung wrote: > Is anyone else planning on attending the RWL conference/trade show? I've been offered a booth: I've yet to decide whether I want to make something out of it. As you mentioned it happens across business hours so I may decide not to go. I'd meet at the restaurant if I did attend. Since the producer is posting here, is there any reason this wasn't done on a weekend? -- Thamer Al-Harbash http://www.whitefang.com/ (if (> pressure too-much-pressure) 'play-ac2 'work) _______________________________________________ gtaSAGE-members mailing list gtaSAGE-members@gtasage.org http://lists.enfusion-group.com/mailman/listinfo/gtasage-members From nistor@snickers.org Sun Mar 23 21:10:03 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: gtasage.org-gtasage-members@gtasage.org Received: (qmail 24542 invoked by uid 1004); 23 Mar 2003 16:10:03 -0500 Received: from nistor@snickers.org by enfusion-group.com with qmail-scanner; 23 Mar 2003 21:10:03 -0000 Received: from 220.40.220-216.q9.net (216.220.40.220, claiming to be "spike.snickers.org") by gambit.enfusion-group.com with SMTP id smtpdFP9Pbn; Sun, 23 Mar 2003 16:10:01 EST Received: by spike.snickers.org (Postfix, from userid 1000) id 5C725F96E; Sun, 23 Mar 2003 16:10:01 -0500 (EST) Date: Sun, 23 Mar 2003 16:10:01 -0500 (EST) From: Jon Nistor To: gtasage-members@gtasage.org Subject: Re: [gtaSAGE-members] Meetings! In-Reply-To: <1048447256.31047.18.camel@jupiter.acf.aquezada.com> Message-ID: <20030323160939.P23285@spike.snickers.org> References: <20030323000557.GW443@enfusion-group.com> <1048391276.570.30.camel@skippy> <1048392746.26819.19.camel@jupiter.acf.aquezada.com> <20030323125539.GA443@enfusion-group.com> <1048447256.31047.18.camel@jupiter.acf.aquezada.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: gtasage-members-admin@gtasage.org Errors-To: gtasage-members-admin@gtasage.org X-BeenThere: gtasage-members@gtasage.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: aligning system and network administrators in the greater Toronto area. List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Thamer, just bring the Marconia clan and you'll be set =) On Sun, 23 Mar 2003, Julian C. Dunn wrote: ||On Sun, 2003-03-23 at 09:08, Thamer Al-Harbash wrote: ||> On Sun, 23 Mar 2003, Adrian Chung wrote: ||> ||> > For the moment, informal would be cool, mainly just so that we can get ||> > together, meet and chat. ||> ||> I have one question: ||> ||> I was told by a TLUG member (Bill Thanis) that if I ever show up ||> to a TLUG meeting I'll be handcuffed and thrown across the ||> pristine white floor, read my rights as "Bad Boyz" plays in the ||> background. ||> ||> I am concerned if this is the case at GTASAGE? Should I bring my ||> attorney? A boom box perhaps with "Bad Boyz" ready to play? || ||That depends entirely on your ability to play nice. Your reputation as ||established on GTABUG precedes you. || ||- Julian || ||-- ||[ Julian C. Dunn * ] ||[ WWW: http://www.aquezada.com/staff/julian/ * PGP: 0xFDC205B9 ] ||[ "let's have a god who likes to party" - disappear fear ] ||_______________________________________________ ||gtaSAGE-members mailing list ||gtaSAGE-members@gtasage.org ||http://lists.enfusion-group.com/mailman/listinfo/gtasage-members || ______ Jon (nistor@snickers.org) - iioiiooo.oiiiiiio.oioiioio.ooooooio : EOF : From adrian@enfusion-group.com Sun Mar 23 21:43:18 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: gtasage.org-gtasage-members@gtasage.org Received: (qmail 25613 invoked by uid 500); 23 Mar 2003 16:43:18 -0500 Date: Sun, 23 Mar 2003 16:43:18 -0500 From: Adrian Chung To: gtasage-members@gtasage.org Subject: Re: [gtaSAGE-members] Meetings! Message-ID: <20030323214317.GB24376@enfusion-group.com> Mail-Followup-To: gtasage-members@gtasage.org References: <20030323125539.GA443@enfusion-group.com> <20030323190347.GA25053@enfusion-group.com> <1048447599.31047.21.camel@jupiter.acf.aquezada.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <1048447599.31047.21.camel@jupiter.acf.aquezada.com> User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.1i X-Operating-System: Linux 2.4.18-26.7.xsmp i686 Organization: Enfusion Group Sender: gtasage-members-admin@gtasage.org Errors-To: gtasage-members-admin@gtasage.org X-BeenThere: gtasage-members@gtasage.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: aligning system and network administrators in the greater Toronto area. List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: On Sun, Mar 23, 2003 at 02:26:40PM -0500, Julian C. Dunn wrote: > On Sun, 2003-03-23 at 14:03, Adrian Chung wrote: > > > Is anyone else planning on attending the RWL conference/trade show? I > > might register, but wasn't planning on attending the conference, and > > the exhibit hall is open during business hours which may not work out > > very conveniently for everyone. > > I signed up to attend the trade show, however depending on how busy I am > I might not be able to make it. If GTASAGE members wanted to meet for > lunch for an hour, though, I could probably do that. Okay, that sounds good. I'll probably aim for Wednesday at 12:30 or so. So for anyone who's interested in a quick get together, register before April 25th for the trade show, and we can work out further details later on: https://www.exporeg.com/realworldlinux/ -- Adrian Chung (adrian at enfusion-group dot com) http://www.enfusion-group.com/~adrian/ GPG Fingerprint: C620 C8EA 86BA 79CC 384C E7BE A10C 353B 919D 1A17 [gambit.enfusion-group.com] 4:39pm up 14 days, 8:16, 10 users From tmh@whitefang.com Mon Mar 24 07:28:54 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: gtasage.org-gtasage-members@gtasage.org Received: (qmail 8595 invoked by uid 1004); 24 Mar 2003 02:28:54 -0500 Received: from tmh@whitefang.com by enfusion-group.com with qmail-scanner; 24 Mar 2003 07:28:54 -0000 Received: from helena.whitefang.com (216.254.175.50) by gambit.enfusion-group.com with SMTP id smtpdMHswjY; Mon, 24 Mar 2003 02:28:51 EST Received: (qmail 18994 invoked from network); 24 Mar 2003 07:29:08 -0000 Received: from helena.whitefang.com (216.254.175.50) by 0 with SMTP; 24 Mar 2003 07:29:08 -0000 From: Thamer Al-Harbash X-X-Sender: shadows@helena.whitefang.com To: gtasage-members@gtasage.org Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Subject: [gtaSAGE-members] pgsql synchronous duplication solution. Sender: gtasage-members-admin@gtasage.org Errors-To: gtasage-members-admin@gtasage.org X-BeenThere: gtasage-members@gtasage.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: aligning system and network administrators in the greater Toronto area. List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon Mar 24 02:29:00 2003 X-Original-Date: Mon, 24 Mar 2003 02:29:06 -0500 (EST) I've found reasonable methods of doing asynchronous replication on a pgsql cluster of multiple machines: http://pgreplicator.sourceforge.net Or by rolling my own triggers. I'd like for a way to do synchronous replication so as to keep the entire cluster active and maintain data integrity across them atomically. I understand the only real way to do this is via a wrapper postmaster that attempts the replication across all the databases and queues anything that cannot make it due to a temporary failure. Is there any such solution which is in production state? Or should I just roll my own? (DBbalancer is still alpha according to sf.net) -- Thamer Al-Harbash http://www.whitefang.com/ (if (> pressure too-much-pressure) 'play-ac2 'work) From adrian@enfusion-group.com Thu Mar 27 15:27:43 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: gtasage.org-gtasage-members@gtasage.org Received: (qmail 5280 invoked by uid 500); 27 Mar 2003 10:27:42 -0500 From: Adrian Chung To: gtaSAGE-members Message-ID: <20030327152742.GB29944@enfusion-group.com> Mail-Followup-To: gtaSAGE-members Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.1i X-Operating-System: Linux 2.4.18-26.7.xsmp i686 Organization: Enfusion Group Subject: [gtaSAGE-members] Win32 NAT applications Sender: gtasage-members-admin@gtasage.org Errors-To: gtasage-members-admin@gtasage.org X-BeenThere: gtasage-members@gtasage.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: aligning system and network administrators in the greater Toronto area. List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu Mar 27 10:28:00 2003 X-Original-Date: Thu, 27 Mar 2003 10:27:42 -0500 Anyone know of any Win32 NAT applications? I'm trying to figure out if there's anything that'll allow me to do for example: Rewrite 192.168.1.1:5000 (LAN address/port) to a.b.c.d:6000 (WAN address/port) There are various ways to do this in UNIX, using SNAT, but I've never seen anything in the Win32 world... -- Adrian Chung (adrian at enfusion-group dot com) http://www.enfusion-group.com/~adrian/ GPG Fingerprint: C620 C8EA 86BA 79CC 384C E7BE A10C 353B 919D 1A17 [gambit.enfusion-group.com] up 18 days, 2:04, 8 users From jbrooks@oddelement.com Thu Mar 27 17:10:10 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: gtasage.org-gtasage-members@gtasage.org Received: (qmail 8648 invoked by uid 1004); 27 Mar 2003 12:10:10 -0500 Received: from jbrooks@oddelement.com by enfusion-group.com with qmail-scanner; 27 Mar 2003 17:10:10 -0000 Received: from fep04-mail.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com (66.185.86.74) by gambit.enfusion-group.com with SMTP id smtpdTm4ria; Thu, 27 Mar 2003 12:10:05 EST Received: from why ([65.49.111.120]) by fep04-mail.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com (InterMail vM.5.01.05.12 201-253-122-126-112-20020820) with ESMTP id <20030327170935.JTOG265409.fep04-mail.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com@why> for ; Thu, 27 Mar 2003 12:09:35 -0500 From: "Joel Brooks" To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.6604 (9.0.2911.0) Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: <20030327170001.8211.89176.Mailman@gambit.enfusion-group.com> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-Authentication-Info: Submitted using SMTP AUTH LOGIN at fep04-mail.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com from [65.49.111.120] using ID at Thu, 27 Mar 2003 12:09:35 -0500 Subject: [gtaSAGE-members] RE: gtaSAGE-members digest, Vol 1 #10 - 1 msg Sender: gtasage-members-admin@gtasage.org Errors-To: gtasage-members-admin@gtasage.org X-BeenThere: gtasage-members@gtasage.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: aligning system and network administrators in the greater Toronto area. List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu Mar 27 12:11:02 2003 X-Original-Date: Thu, 27 Mar 2003 12:21:06 -0500 Hi Adrian, Have you ever come across nat32? http://www.nat32.com J > -----Original Message----- > From: gtasage-members-admin@gtasage.org > [mailto:gtasage-members-admin@gtasage.org]On Behalf Of > gtasage-members-request@gtasage.org > Sent: Thursday, March 27, 2003 12:00 > To: gtasage-members@gtasage.org > Subject: gtaSAGE-members digest, Vol 1 #10 - 1 msg > > > Send gtaSAGE-members mailing list submissions to > gtasage-members@gtasage.org > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > http://lists.enfusion-group.com/mailman/listinfo/gtasage-members > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > gtasage-members-request@gtasage.org > > You can reach the person managing the list at > gtasage-members-admin@gtasage.org > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific > than "Re: Contents of gtaSAGE-members digest..." > > > Today's Topics: > > 1. Win32 NAT applications (Adrian Chung) > > --__--__-- > > Message: 1 > Date: Thu, 27 Mar 2003 10:27:42 -0500 > From: Adrian Chung > To: gtaSAGE-members > Organization: Enfusion Group > Subject: [gtaSAGE-members] Win32 NAT applications > > Anyone know of any Win32 NAT applications? I'm trying to figure out > if there's anything that'll allow me to do for example: > > Rewrite 192.168.1.1:5000 (LAN address/port) to a.b.c.d:6000 (WAN > address/port) > > There are various ways to do this in UNIX, using SNAT, but I've never > seen anything in the Win32 world... > > -- > Adrian Chung (adrian at enfusion-group dot com) > http://www.enfusion-group.com/~adrian/ > GPG Fingerprint: C620 C8EA 86BA 79CC 384C E7BE A10C 353B 919D 1A17 > [gambit.enfusion-group.com] up 18 days, 2:04, 8 users > > > > --__--__-- > > _______________________________________________ > gtaSAGE-members mailing list > gtaSAGE-members@gtasage.org > http://lists.enfusion-group.com/mailman/listinfo/gtasage-members > > > End of gtaSAGE-members Digest > From adrian@enfusion-group.com Thu Mar 27 17:15:35 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: gtasage.org-gtasage-members@gtasage.org Received: (qmail 8961 invoked by uid 500); 27 Mar 2003 12:15:35 -0500 From: Adrian Chung To: gtasage-members@gtasage.org Subject: Re: [gtaSAGE-members] RE: gtaSAGE-members digest, Vol 1 #10 - 1 msg Message-ID: <20030327171534.GD29944@enfusion-group.com> Mail-Followup-To: gtasage-members@gtasage.org References: <20030327170001.8211.89176.Mailman@gambit.enfusion-group.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.1i X-Operating-System: Linux 2.4.18-26.7.xsmp i686 Organization: Enfusion Group Sender: gtasage-members-admin@gtasage.org Errors-To: gtasage-members-admin@gtasage.org X-BeenThere: gtasage-members@gtasage.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: aligning system and network administrators in the greater Toronto area. List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu Mar 27 12:16:01 2003 X-Original-Date: Thu, 27 Mar 2003 12:15:35 -0500 On Thu, Mar 27, 2003 at 12:21:06PM -0500, Joel Brooks wrote: [...regarding Win32 NAT solutions...] > Hi Adrian, > > Have you ever come across nat32? http://www.nat32.com I took a quick peek at that today on someone else's recommendation. It looks like it will do regular outbound SNAT (masquerading), but I need something that will do SNAT with the flexibility to specify the source address and port that the original address/port should get NAT'd to. From what I can tell, nat32 can't do that. -- Adrian Chung (adrian at enfusion-group dot com) http://www.enfusion-group.com/~adrian/ GPG Fingerprint: C620 C8EA 86BA 79CC 384C E7BE A10C 353B 919D 1A17 [gambit.enfusion-group.com] up 18 days, 3:50, 8 users From robert@timetraveller.org Thu Mar 27 18:11:21 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: gtasage.org-gtasage-members@gtasage.org Received: (qmail 10812 invoked by uid 1004); 27 Mar 2003 13:11:21 -0500 Received: from robert@timetraveller.org by enfusion-group.com with qmail-scanner; 27 Mar 2003 18:11:21 -0000 Received: from blake.timetraveller.org (203.23.43.10) by gambit.enfusion-group.com with SMTP id smtpdqxAImZ; Thu, 27 Mar 2003 13:11:19 EST Received: from blake.timetraveller.org (blake.timetraveller.org [203.23.43.10]) by blake.timetraveller.org (8.12.3/8.12.3) with ESMTP id h2RIBBnT027632; Fri, 28 Mar 2003 04:11:12 +1000 From: Robert Brockway To: Adrian Chung cc: gtaSAGE-members Subject: Re: [gtaSAGE-members] Win32 NAT applications In-Reply-To: <20030327152742.GB29944@enfusion-group.com> Message-ID: References: <20030327152742.GB29944@enfusion-group.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: gtasage-members-admin@gtasage.org Errors-To: gtasage-members-admin@gtasage.org X-BeenThere: gtasage-members@gtasage.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: aligning system and network administrators in the greater Toronto area. List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu Mar 27 13:12:01 2003 X-Original-Date: Thu, 27 Mar 2003 13:11:11 -0500 (EST) On Thu, 27 Mar 2003, Adrian Chung wrote: > Anyone know of any Win32 NAT applications? I'm trying to figure out > if there's anything that'll allow me to do for example: > > Rewrite 192.168.1.1:5000 (LAN address/port) to a.b.c.d:6000 (WAN > address/port) > > There are various ways to do this in UNIX, using SNAT, but I've never > seen anything in the Win32 world... In the past their have been various windows tools to do NAT style translations (such as WinGate) but they were generally less robust and less versatile than Linux's native capabilities. For example, I'm not sure how well they do port redirects. If you are having trouble finding a windows product to do the job why not put a small Linux box in to do it - it could be made up from the spare hardware that businesses often have lying around. No need for a monitor, etc. A nice serial console can always be good if you do need access to the console from time to time. Cheers, Rob -- Robert Brockway B.Sc. email: robert@timetraveller.org ICQ: 104781119 Linux counter project ID #16440 (http://counter.li.org) "The earth is but one country and mankind its citizens" -Baha'u'llah From adrian@enfusion-group.com Thu Mar 27 18:36:47 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: gtasage.org-gtasage-members@gtasage.org Received: (qmail 11676 invoked by uid 500); 27 Mar 2003 13:36:47 -0500 From: Adrian Chung To: gtaSAGE-members Subject: Re: [gtaSAGE-members] Win32 NAT applications Message-ID: <20030327183646.GE29944@enfusion-group.com> Mail-Followup-To: gtaSAGE-members References: <20030327152742.GB29944@enfusion-group.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.1i X-Operating-System: Linux 2.4.18-26.7.xsmp i686 Organization: Enfusion Group Sender: gtasage-members-admin@gtasage.org Errors-To: gtasage-members-admin@gtasage.org X-BeenThere: gtasage-members@gtasage.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: aligning system and network administrators in the greater Toronto area. List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu Mar 27 13:37:01 2003 X-Original-Date: Thu, 27 Mar 2003 13:36:46 -0500 On Thu, Mar 27, 2003 at 01:11:11PM -0500, Robert Brockway wrote: [...] > If you are having trouble finding a windows product to do the job why not > put a small Linux box in to do it - it could be made up from the spare > hardware that businesses often have lying around. No need for a monitor, > etc. A nice serial console can always be good if you do need access to > the console from time to time. Ultimately, that'd be the solution. Except that this isn't a business environment, it's a residential environment, and managing a Linux box will be difficult for them to do. In any case, never having looked for a Windows based solution, I'm curious to know whether anyone else has... -- Adrian Chung (adrian at enfusion-group dot com) http://www.enfusion-group.com/~adrian/ GPG Fingerprint: C620 C8EA 86BA 79CC 384C E7BE A10C 353B 919D 1A17 [gambit.enfusion-group.com] 1:32pm up 18 days, 5:10, 8 users From tmh@whitefang.com Thu Mar 27 18:41:31 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: gtasage.org-gtasage-members@gtasage.org Received: (qmail 11874 invoked by uid 1004); 27 Mar 2003 13:41:31 -0500 Received: from tmh@whitefang.com by enfusion-group.com with qmail-scanner; 27 Mar 2003 18:41:31 -0000 Received: from helena.whitefang.com (216.254.175.50) by gambit.enfusion-group.com with SMTP id smtpdvuigti; Thu, 27 Mar 2003 13:41:25 EST Received: (qmail 40769 invoked from network); 27 Mar 2003 18:41:35 -0000 Received: from helena.whitefang.com (216.254.175.50) by 0 with SMTP; 27 Mar 2003 18:41:35 -0000 From: Thamer Al-Harbash X-X-Sender: shadows@helena.whitefang.com To: gtaSAGE-members Subject: Re: [gtaSAGE-members] Win32 NAT applications In-Reply-To: <20030327183646.GE29944@enfusion-group.com> Message-ID: References: <20030327152742.GB29944@enfusion-group.com> <20030327183646.GE29944@enfusion-group.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: gtasage-members-admin@gtasage.org Errors-To: gtasage-members-admin@gtasage.org X-BeenThere: gtasage-members@gtasage.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: aligning system and network administrators in the greater Toronto area. List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu Mar 27 13:42:01 2003 X-Original-Date: Thu, 27 Mar 2003 13:41:35 -0500 (EST) On Thu, 27 Mar 2003, Adrian Chung wrote: > Ultimately, that'd be the solution. Except that this isn't a business > environment, it's a residential environment, and managing a Linux box > will be difficult for them to do. Doesn't linksys sell small boxes that do this? They even come with a windows gui. -- Thamer Al-Harbash http://www.whitefang.com/ (if (> pressure too-much-pressure) 'play-ac2 'work) From adrian@enfusion-group.com Thu Mar 27 20:18:27 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: gtasage.org-gtasage-members@gtasage.org Received: (qmail 14971 invoked by uid 500); 27 Mar 2003 15:18:27 -0500 From: Adrian Chung To: gtaSAGE-members Subject: Re: [gtaSAGE-members] Win32 NAT applications Message-ID: <20030327201826.GF29944@enfusion-group.com> Mail-Followup-To: gtaSAGE-members References: <20030327152742.GB29944@enfusion-group.com> <20030327183646.GE29944@enfusion-group.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.1i X-Operating-System: Linux 2.4.18-26.7.xsmp i686 Organization: Enfusion Group Sender: gtasage-members-admin@gtasage.org Errors-To: gtasage-members-admin@gtasage.org X-BeenThere: gtasage-members@gtasage.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: aligning system and network administrators in the greater Toronto area. List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu Mar 27 15:19:01 2003 X-Original-Date: Thu, 27 Mar 2003 15:18:27 -0500 On Thu, Mar 27, 2003 at 01:41:35PM -0500, Thamer Al-Harbash wrote: > On Thu, 27 Mar 2003, Adrian Chung wrote: > > > Ultimately, that'd be the solution. Except that this isn't a business > > environment, it's a residential environment, and managing a Linux box > > will be difficult for them to do. > > Doesn't linksys sell small boxes that do this? They even come > with a windows gui. They sure do, as do SMC, and D-Link. But they only allow you to masquerade outgoing connections, not specify NAT's for specific ports. They do port forward from WAN -> LAN too. -- Adrian Chung (adrian at enfusion-group dot com) http://www.enfusion-group.com/~adrian/ GPG Fingerprint: C620 C8EA 86BA 79CC 384C E7BE A10C 353B 919D 1A17 [gambit.enfusion-group.com] 3:17pm up 18 days, 6:55, 8 users From lsorense@csclub.uwaterloo.ca Fri Mar 28 20:48:33 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: gtasage.org-gtasage-members@gtasage.org Received: (qmail 27069 invoked by uid 1004); 28 Mar 2003 15:48:33 -0500 Received: from lsorense@csclub.uwaterloo.ca by enfusion-group.com with qmail-scanner; 28 Mar 2003 20:48:33 -0000 Received: from perpugilliam.csclub.uwaterloo.ca (129.97.134.31) by gambit.enfusion-group.com with SMTP id smtpduxcPCw; Fri, 28 Mar 2003 15:48:23 EST Received: by perpugilliam.csclub.uwaterloo.ca (Postfix, from userid 3120) id 07A6F10B26E; Fri, 28 Mar 2003 15:45:27 -0500 (EST) To: gtasage-members@gtasage.org Subject: Re: [gtaSAGE-members] pgsql synchronous duplication solution. Message-ID: <20030328204526.GR23152@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Mutt/1.3.28i From: lsorense@csclub.uwaterloo.ca (Lennart Sorensen) Sender: gtasage-members-admin@gtasage.org Errors-To: gtasage-members-admin@gtasage.org X-BeenThere: gtasage-members@gtasage.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: aligning system and network administrators in the greater Toronto area. List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri Mar 28 15:49:01 2003 X-Original-Date: Fri, 28 Mar 2003 15:45:26 -0500 On Mon, Mar 24, 2003 at 02:29:06AM -0500, Thamer Al-Harbash wrote: > I've found reasonable methods of doing asynchronous replication > on a pgsql cluster of multiple machines: > > http://pgreplicator.sourceforge.net The documentation seems to indicate a lot of extra cruft to add to tables to maintain it. Not sure it is live replication either, assuming that is necesary. > Or by rolling my own triggers. Hmm, I wonder if it would be possible to have all data updates cause one db to send commands to another. Of course what happens if one is down for service then. > I'd like for a way to do synchronous replication so as to keep > the entire cluster active and maintain data integrity across them > atomically. I understand the only real way to do this is via a > wrapper postmaster that attempts the replication across all the > databases and queues anything that cannot make it due to a > temporary failure. Is there any such solution which is in > production state? Or should I just roll my own? I found one attempt at doing so, but it did not handle all cases. I have considered doing my own, but there seems to be a lot of things to keep track of when a query does an update to a server. I guess if you could garentee that a query would succeed on all servers in an identical manner, it would be ok, but how do you ensure that, given automaticly incrementing counters and such? I haven't tried to roll my own yet, in the hopes that some day postgres will do it itself in the backend which is where it belongs in my opinion. > (DBbalancer is still alpha according to sf.net) Yeah, and there are things it can't really do (like know to replacate a select statement if it causes a trigger to update some data, if someone happens to have set it up that way.) Lennart Sorensen From tmh@whitefang.com Fri Mar 28 21:19:53 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: gtasage.org-gtasage-members@gtasage.org Received: (qmail 28235 invoked by uid 1004); 28 Mar 2003 16:19:53 -0500 Received: from tmh@whitefang.com by enfusion-group.com with qmail-scanner; 28 Mar 2003 21:19:53 -0000 Received: from helena.whitefang.com (216.254.175.50) by gambit.enfusion-group.com with SMTP id smtpdU1Tk53; Fri, 28 Mar 2003 16:19:43 EST Received: (qmail 48184 invoked from network); 28 Mar 2003 21:20:01 -0000 Received: from helena.whitefang.com (216.254.175.50) by 0 with SMTP; 28 Mar 2003 21:20:01 -0000 From: Thamer Al-Harbash X-X-Sender: shadows@helena.whitefang.com To: gtasage-members@gtasage.org Subject: Re: [gtaSAGE-members] pgsql synchronous duplication solution. In-Reply-To: <20030328204526.GR23152@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: References: <20030328204526.GR23152@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: gtasage-members-admin@gtasage.org Errors-To: gtasage-members-admin@gtasage.org X-BeenThere: gtasage-members@gtasage.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: aligning system and network administrators in the greater Toronto area. List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri Mar 28 16:20:01 2003 X-Original-Date: Fri, 28 Mar 2003 16:20:01 -0500 (EST) On Fri, 28 Mar 2003, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > The documentation seems to indicate a lot of extra cruft to add to > tables to maintain it. Not sure it is live replication either, > assuming that is necesary. It's essentially a daemon that maintains a seperate set of tables via triggers, and then a tool to sync the databases together. It's "asynchronous" though which means the replication is not done in real time. You have to explicitly run the tool (out of crontab presumably). It has conflict resolution which is helpful. This solution does not allow me to run the all the databases as active because there will be a race condition in between synchronization. I can use this for an active/fail-over scenario where one database is handling the load. When it croaks you _hope_ that most of the data made it through to the fail-over, and when you bring the primary database back up you should be able to synchronize whatever data made it through. It's OK for one project I have but completely useless for other projects. > I found one attempt at doing so, but it did not handle all cases. I > have considered doing my own, but there seems to be a lot of things to > keep track of when a query does an update to a server. I guess if you > could garentee that a query would succeed on all servers in an identical > manner, it would be ok, The problem is even something like DBbalancer cannot do very much. It's a metaphysical limitation when using a wrapper postmaster to replicate data. For example: insert into foo (creation_time, foo_id) VALUES(CURRENT_TIME, 1); The result will not be the same on each server. You cannot guarantee that the CURRENT_TIME function will return the same time on each server, and it probably never ever will. Not unless the postmaster rewrites queries and that's just too creepy for me. (I think that's what you were alluding when you said there are some things it cannot do) I'm current considering doing this like LDAP. One master accepts updates and replicates it all at once to the slaves. I'll fiddle with pgreplicator to see if I can get updates to happen atomically across the slaves. This may be possible. Very limiting though. I cannot do a read and write in one session to one database :| -- Thamer Al-Harbash http://www.whitefang.com/ (if (> pressure too-much-pressure) 'play-ac2 'work) From tmh@whitefang.com Fri Mar 28 22:01:13 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: gtasage.org-gtasage-members@gtasage.org Received: (qmail 29500 invoked by uid 1004); 28 Mar 2003 17:01:13 -0500 Received: from tmh@whitefang.com by enfusion-group.com with qmail-scanner; 28 Mar 2003 22:01:13 -0000 Received: from helena.whitefang.com (216.254.175.50) by gambit.enfusion-group.com with SMTP id smtpdExAILu; Fri, 28 Mar 2003 17:01:11 EST Received: (qmail 48418 invoked from network); 28 Mar 2003 22:01:29 -0000 Received: from helena.whitefang.com (216.254.175.50) by 0 with SMTP; 28 Mar 2003 22:01:29 -0000 From: Thamer Al-Harbash X-X-Sender: shadows@helena.whitefang.com To: gtasage-members@gtasage.org Subject: Re: [gtaSAGE-members] pgsql synchronous duplication solution. In-Reply-To: Message-ID: References: <20030328204526.GR23152@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: gtasage-members-admin@gtasage.org Errors-To: gtasage-members-admin@gtasage.org X-BeenThere: gtasage-members@gtasage.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: aligning system and network administrators in the greater Toronto area. List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri Mar 28 17:02:01 2003 X-Original-Date: Fri, 28 Mar 2003 17:01:29 -0500 (EST) http://www.pgsql.com/press/PR_eRServer1_2.html Exactly what I described in an earlier post. May or may not use it :) -- Thamer Al-Harbash http://www.whitefang.com/ (if (> pressure too-much-pressure) 'play-ac2 'work) From adrian@enfusion-group.com Thu Apr 03 19:10:32 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: gtasage.org-gtasage-members@gtasage.org Received: (qmail 592 invoked by uid 500); 3 Apr 2003 14:10:32 -0500 From: Adrian Chung To: gtaSAGE-members Message-ID: <20030403191031.GR29944@enfusion-group.com> Mail-Followup-To: gtaSAGE-members Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.1i X-Operating-System: Linux 2.4.18-26.7.xsmp i686 Organization: Enfusion Group Subject: [gtaSAGE-members] Windows Deployment Sender: gtasage-members-admin@gtasage.org Errors-To: gtasage-members-admin@gtasage.org X-BeenThere: gtasage-members@gtasage.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: aligning system and network administrators in the greater Toronto area. List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu Apr 3 14:11:01 2003 X-Original-Date: Thu, 3 Apr 2003 14:10:32 -0500 Anyone here deal with Windows systems on an administrative level, and on a semi-regular basis? Or better yet, have to deploy lots of servers in an automated fashion? -- Adrian Chung (adrian at enfusion-group dot com) http://www.enfusion-group.com/~adrian/ GPG Fingerprint: C620 C8EA 86BA 79CC 384C E7BE A10C 353B 919D 1A17 [gambit.enfusion-group.com] 2:09pm up 25 days, 5:50, 10 users From jsellens@generalconcepts.com Wed Apr 16 19:09:46 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: gtasage.org-gtasage-members@gtasage.org Received: (qmail 24249 invoked by uid 1004); 16 Apr 2003 15:09:46 -0400 Received: from jsellens@generalconcepts.com by enfusion-group.com with qmail-scanner; 16 Apr 2003 19:09:46 -0000 Received: from CPE000024c0194d-CM00803785ed49.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com (24.192.1.184, claiming to be "gc0.generalconcepts.com") by gambit.enfusion-group.com with SMTP id smtpdqdAgCD; Wed, 16 Apr 2003 15:09:37 EDT Received: (from jsellens@localhost) by gc0.generalconcepts.com (8.11.6/8.11.1) id h3GJ9Zk29510 for gtasage-members@gtasage.org; Wed, 16 Apr 2003 15:09:35 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from jsellens) Message-Id: <200304161909.h3GJ9Zk29510@gc0.generalconcepts.com> From: John Sellens To: gtasage-members@gtasage.org Subject: [gtaSAGE-members] Need SAGE volunteers in Toronto - April 29/30 Sender: gtasage-members-admin@gtasage.org Errors-To: gtasage-members-admin@gtasage.org X-BeenThere: gtasage-members@gtasage.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: aligning system and network administrators in the greater Toronto area. List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed Apr 16 15:10:01 2003 X-Original-Date: Wed, 16 Apr 2003 15:09:35 -0400 (EDT) (Adrian suggested I also post this here to gtaSAGE - apologies if you've seen it before.) The Real World Linux conference and trade show (www.realworldlinux.com) has graciously donated a show booth to SAGE at their upcoming event in downtown Toronto, April 29 and 30. I'm organizing volunteers to help staff the booth on those days, so if you've got some time available then, and you'll be near downtown Toronto, please drop me a line (name, email, phone). I'm not asking for full day committments, and no experience is required. Thanks! John jsellens@sage.org jsellens@generalconcepts.com From adrian@enfusion-group.com Fri Apr 25 01:01:37 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: gtasage.org-gtasage-members@gtasage.org Received: (qmail 2539 invoked by uid 500); 24 Apr 2003 21:01:37 -0400 From: Adrian Chung To: gtaSAGE-members Message-ID: <20030425010137.GA2352@enfusion-group.com> Mail-Followup-To: gtaSAGE-members Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.1i X-Operating-System: Linux 2.4.18-26.7.xsmp i686 Organization: Enfusion Group Subject: [gtaSAGE-members] Munch and Meet, Tuesday/Wednesday? Sender: gtasage-members-admin@gtasage.org Errors-To: gtasage-members-admin@gtasage.org X-BeenThere: gtasage-members@gtasage.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: aligning system and network administrators in the greater Toronto area. List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu Apr 24 21:02:01 2003 X-Original-Date: Thu, 24 Apr 2003 21:01:37 -0400 Anyone still up for meeting for lunch at the RWL Trade Show this week? I'm not going to be able to spend much more time than that there, but hopefully a few of us can get together. If you're interested, let's co-ordinate! -- Adrian Chung (adrian at enfusion-group dot com) http://www.enfusion-group.com/~adrian/ GPG Fingerprint: C620 C8EA 86BA 79CC 384C E7BE A10C 353B 919D 1A17 [gambit.enfusion-group.com] 9:00pm up 25 min, 3 users, load average: 0.58 From jdunn@aquezada.com Fri Apr 25 01:26:49 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: gtasage.org-gtasage-members@gtasage.org Received: (qmail 3280 invoked by uid 1004); 24 Apr 2003 21:26:49 -0400 Received: from jdunn@aquezada.com by enfusion-group.com with qmail-scanner; 25 Apr 2003 01:26:49 -0000 Received: from vpn.verticalscope.com (209.82.14.133, claiming to be "aphrodite.aquezada.com") by gambit.enfusion-group.com with SMTP id smtpdJCOHv4; Thu, 24 Apr 2003 21:26:43 EDT Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by aphrodite.aquezada.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8BCA9596 for ; Thu, 24 Apr 2003 16:23:23 -0400 (EDT) Received: from aphrodite.aquezada.com ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (aphrodite.acf.aquezada.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with LMTP id 88196-03 for ; Thu, 24 Apr 2003 16:23:22 -0400 (EDT) Received: from jupiter.acf.aquezada.com (jupiter.acf.aquezada.com [192.168.5.5]) by aphrodite.aquezada.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1877615 for ; Thu, 24 Apr 2003 16:23:22 -0400 (EDT) Received: by jupiter.acf.aquezada.com (Postfix, from userid 1001) id C942A53330; Thu, 24 Apr 2003 21:26:20 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Re: [gtaSAGE-members] Munch and Meet, Tuesday/Wednesday? From: "Julian C. Dunn" To: gtasage-members@gtasage.org In-Reply-To: <20030425010137.GA2352@enfusion-group.com> References: <20030425010137.GA2352@enfusion-group.com> Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Organization: Aquezada Productions Message-Id: <1051233980.13371.6.camel@jupiter.acf.aquezada.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Ximian Evolution 1.2.4 X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at aquezada.com Sender: gtasage-members-admin@gtasage.org Errors-To: gtasage-members-admin@gtasage.org X-BeenThere: gtasage-members@gtasage.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: aligning system and network administrators in the greater Toronto area. List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu Apr 24 21:27:00 2003 X-Original-Date: 24 Apr 2003 21:26:20 -0400 On Thu, 2003-04-24 at 21:01, Adrian Chung wrote: > Anyone still up for meeting for lunch at the RWL Trade Show this week? > I'm not going to be able to spend much more time than that there, but > hopefully a few of us can get together. > > If you're interested, let's co-ordinate! Depends what time on Tuesday; I have a Solaris certification exam to write that morning so lunch would have to be, say, 1 p.m. or so. - Julian -- [ Julian C. Dunn * ] [ WWW: http://www.aquezada.com/staff/julian/ * PGP: 0xFDC205B9 ] [ "let's have a god who likes to party" - disappear fear ] From duane@dbsconsulting.ca Fri Apr 25 01:39:29 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: gtasage.org-gtasage-members@gtasage.org Received: (qmail 3703 invoked by uid 1004); 24 Apr 2003 21:39:29 -0400 Received: from duane@dbsconsulting.ca by enfusion-group.com with qmail-scanner; 25 Apr 2003 01:39:29 -0000 Received: from CPE00d009d69398-CM0010951569b2.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com (24.153.43.190, claiming to be "skippy.duanebedeau.com") by gambit.enfusion-group.com with SMTP id smtpdxuTrsb; Thu, 24 Apr 2003 21:39:24 EDT Received: from skippy.duanebedeau.com (IDENT:1000@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by skippy.duanebedeau.com (8.12.4/8.12.4) with ESMTP id h3P1dQ20009992 for ; Thu, 24 Apr 2003 21:39:26 -0400 Received: (from duane@localhost) by skippy.duanebedeau.com (8.12.4/8.12.4/Submit) id h3P1dPdR009991; Thu, 24 Apr 2003 21:39:25 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: skippy.duanebedeau.com: duane set sender to duane@dbsconsulting.ca using -f Subject: Re: [gtaSAGE-members] Munch and Meet, Tuesday/Wednesday? From: Duane Bedeau Cc: gtasage-members@gtasage.org In-Reply-To: <1051233980.13371.6.camel@jupiter.acf.aquezada.com> References: <20030425010137.GA2352@enfusion-group.com> <1051233980.13371.6.camel@jupiter.acf.aquezada.com> Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Ximian Evolution 1.0.7 Message-Id: <1051234765.284.6.camel@skippy> Mime-Version: 1.0 Sender: gtasage-members-admin@gtasage.org Errors-To: gtasage-members-admin@gtasage.org X-BeenThere: gtasage-members@gtasage.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: aligning system and network administrators in the greater Toronto area. List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu Apr 24 21:40:01 2003 X-Original-Date: 24 Apr 2003 21:39:25 -0400 Tuesday 1ish? Sounds ok to me! On Thu, 2003-04-24 at 21:26, Julian C. Dunn wrote: > On Thu, 2003-04-24 at 21:01, Adrian Chung wrote: > > Anyone still up for meeting for lunch at the RWL Trade Show this week? > > I'm not going to be able to spend much more time than that there, but > > hopefully a few of us can get together. > > > > If you're interested, let's co-ordinate! > > Depends what time on Tuesday; I have a Solaris certification exam to > write that morning so lunch would have to be, say, 1 p.m. or so. > > - Julian > > -- > [ Julian C. Dunn * ] > [ WWW: http://www.aquezada.com/staff/julian/ * PGP: 0xFDC205B9 ] > [ "let's have a god who likes to party" - disappear fear ] > _______________________________________________ > gtaSAGE-members mailing list > gtaSAGE-members@gtasage.org > http://lists.enfusion-group.com/mailman/listinfo/gtasage-members -- Duane Bedeau DBS Consulting Services Tel:(416)782-3514 http://www.dbsconsulting.ca Email:duane@dbsconsulting.ca From adrian@enfusion-group.com Fri Apr 25 02:27:50 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: gtasage.org-gtasage-members@gtasage.org Received: (qmail 5060 invoked by uid 500); 24 Apr 2003 22:27:50 -0400 From: Adrian Chung To: gtasage-members@gtasage.org Subject: Re: [gtaSAGE-members] Munch and Meet, Tuesday/Wednesday? Message-ID: <20030425022749.GB2352@enfusion-group.com> Mail-Followup-To: gtasage-members@gtasage.org References: <20030425010137.GA2352@enfusion-group.com> <1051233980.13371.6.camel@jupiter.acf.aquezada.com> <1051234765.284.6.camel@skippy> <20030425010137.GA2352@enfusion-group.com> <1051233980.13371.6.camel@jupiter.acf.aquezada.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <1051234765.284.6.camel@skippy> <1051233980.13371.6.camel@jupiter.acf.aquezada.com> User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.1i X-Operating-System: Linux 2.4.18-26.7.xsmp i686 Organization: Enfusion Group Sender: gtasage-members-admin@gtasage.org Errors-To: gtasage-members-admin@gtasage.org X-BeenThere: gtasage-members@gtasage.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: aligning system and network administrators in the greater Toronto area. List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu Apr 24 22:28:01 2003 X-Original-Date: Thu, 24 Apr 2003 22:27:50 -0400 On Thu, Apr 24, 2003 at 09:26:20PM -0400, Julian C. Dunn wrote: > On Thu, 2003-04-24 at 21:01, Adrian Chung wrote: [...] > > If you're interested, let's co-ordinate! > > Depends what time on Tuesday; I have a Solaris certification exam to > write that morning so lunch would have to be, say, 1 p.m. or so. [...] On Thu, Apr 24, 2003 at 09:39:25PM -0400, Duane Bedeau wrote: > Tuesday 1ish? Sounds ok to me! Hey that sounds good. We'll aim for Tuesday at 1PM. -- Adrian Chung (adrian at enfusion-group dot com) http://www.enfusion-group.com/~adrian/ GPG Fingerprint: C620 C8EA 86BA 79CC 384C E7BE A10C 353B 919D 1A17 [gambit.enfusion-group.com] up 1:52, 3 users, load average: 0.62 From bcole@plumcom.ca Fri Apr 25 02:16:19 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: gtasage.org-gtasage-members@gtasage.org Received: (qmail 4699 invoked by uid 1004); 24 Apr 2003 22:16:19 -0400 Received: from bcole@plumcom.ca by enfusion-group.com with qmail-scanner; 25 Apr 2003 02:16:19 -0000 Received: from express.webdns.net (66.48.93.8, claiming to be "plumcom.ca") by gambit.enfusion-group.com with SMTP id smtpdJEuZzt; Thu, 24 Apr 2003 22:16:14 EDT Received: from BruceNB [24.103.136.2] by plumcom.ca with ESMTP (SMTPD32-7.13) id AAB924F5011E; Thu, 24 Apr 2003 22:17:29 -0400 Reply-To: From: "Bruce Cole at plumcom.ca" To: "Julian C. Dunn" , Subject: RE: [gtaSAGE-members] Munch and Meet, Tuesday/Wednesday? Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: <1051233980.13371.6.camel@jupiter.acf.aquezada.com> Sender: gtasage-members-admin@gtasage.org Errors-To: gtasage-members-admin@gtasage.org X-BeenThere: gtasage-members@gtasage.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: aligning system and network administrators in the greater Toronto area. List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu Apr 24 22:29:01 2003 X-Original-Date: Thu, 24 Apr 2003 22:28:46 -0400 Hello there... Martin Fink, Vice President and CTO of Business Critical Systems, Hewlett-Packard is our Free keynote speaker on Tuesday April 29 from 10am to 11am. The next free speaker is Dave Dargo, Vice President, Linux Program Office, Oracle Corp. from 12:30pm to 1:30pm. We will also have a large area with a buffet restaurant and plenty of seating just outside of the exhibit hall. Hope this helps. Bruce Cole -----Original Message----- From: gtasage-members-admin@gtasage.org [mailto:gtasage-members-admin@gtasage.org]On Behalf Of Julian C. Dunn Sent: April 24, 2003 9:26 PM To: gtasage-members@gtasage.org Subject: Re: [gtaSAGE-members] Munch and Meet, Tuesday/Wednesday? On Thu, 2003-04-24 at 21:01, Adrian Chung wrote: > Anyone still up for meeting for lunch at the RWL Trade Show this week? > I'm not going to be able to spend much more time than that there, but > hopefully a few of us can get together. > > If you're interested, let's co-ordinate! Depends what time on Tuesday; I have a Solaris certification exam to write that morning so lunch would have to be, say, 1 p.m. or so. - Julian -- [ Julian C. Dunn * ] [ WWW: http://www.aquezada.com/staff/julian/ * PGP: 0xFDC205B9 ] [ "let's have a god who likes to party" - disappear fear ] _______________________________________________ gtaSAGE-members mailing list gtaSAGE-members@gtasage.org http://lists.enfusion-group.com/mailman/listinfo/gtasage-members From adrian@enfusion-group.com Tue Apr 29 01:14:21 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: gtasage.org-gtasage-members@gtasage.org Received: (qmail 3672 invoked by uid 500); 28 Apr 2003 21:14:21 -0400 From: Adrian Chung To: gtaSAGE-members Message-ID: <20030429011420.GC26200@enfusion-group.com> Mail-Followup-To: gtaSAGE-members Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.1i X-Operating-System: Linux 2.4.18-26.7.xsmp i686 Organization: Enfusion Group Subject: [gtaSAGE-members] Munch 'n Meet - Tomorrow (1:00PM). Sender: gtasage-members-admin@gtasage.org Errors-To: gtasage-members-admin@gtasage.org X-BeenThere: gtasage-members@gtasage.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: aligning system and network administrators in the greater Toronto area. List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon Apr 28 21:15:01 2003 X-Original-Date: Mon, 28 Apr 2003 21:14:21 -0400 For anyone who's interested, we're still planning on meeting tomorrow at the RWL trade show for a quick meeting, and possibly some food. Since the MTCC is a large place, and meeting will be difficult, I suggest we congregate at the SAGE booth (which hopefully we'll all be able to find without too many problems). If you show up late, or can't find the booth, feel free to give me a call, 416-508-5945. See you there! -- Adrian Chung (adrian at enfusion-group dot com) http://www.enfusion-group.com/~adrian/ GPG Fingerprint: C620 C8EA 86BA 79CC 384C E7BE A10C 353B 919D 1A17 [gambit.enfusion-group.com] 9:11pm up 3 days, 21:59, 5 users From lists+gtasage@aquezada.com Wed Apr 30 22:32:03 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: gtasage.org-gtasage-members@gtasage.org Received: (qmail 21175 invoked by uid 1004); 30 Apr 2003 18:32:03 -0400 Received: from lists+gtasage@aquezada.com by enfusion-group.com with qmail-scanner; 30 Apr 2003 22:32:03 -0000 Received: from alumni-user112.dialin.utoronto.ca (205.211.129.112, claiming to be "aphrodite.aquezada.com") by gambit.enfusion-group.com with SMTP id smtpdXKT6hb; Wed, 30 Apr 2003 18:31:52 EDT Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by aphrodite.aquezada.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 866ED96D for ; Wed, 30 Apr 2003 00:09:22 -0400 (EDT) Received: from aphrodite.aquezada.com ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (aphrodite.acf.aquezada.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with LMTP id 15628-02 for ; Wed, 30 Apr 2003 00:09:21 -0400 (EDT) Received: from jupiter.acf.aquezada.com (jupiter.acf.aquezada.com [192.168.5.5]) by aphrodite.aquezada.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3D0F562B for ; Wed, 30 Apr 2003 00:09:21 -0400 (EDT) Received: by jupiter.acf.aquezada.com (Postfix, from userid 1001) id E7C765343F; Wed, 30 Apr 2003 00:09:59 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Re: [gtaSAGE-members] Munch 'n Meet - Tomorrow (1:00PM). From: "Julian C. Dunn" To: gtaSAGE-members In-Reply-To: <20030429011420.GC26200@enfusion-group.com> References: <20030429011420.GC26200@enfusion-group.com> Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Organization: Aquezada Productions Message-Id: <1051675799.1532.92.camel@jupiter.acf.aquezada.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Ximian Evolution 1.2.2 (1.2.2-5) X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at aquezada.com Sender: gtasage-members-admin@gtasage.org Errors-To: gtasage-members-admin@gtasage.org X-BeenThere: gtasage-members@gtasage.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: aligning system and network administrators in the greater Toronto area. List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed Apr 30 18:33:01 2003 X-Original-Date: 30 Apr 2003 00:09:59 -0400 On Mon, 2003-04-28 at 21:14, Adrian Chung wrote: > For anyone who's interested, we're still planning on meeting tomorrow > at the RWL trade show for a quick meeting, and possibly some food. > > Since the MTCC is a large place, and meeting will be difficult, I > suggest we congregate at the SAGE booth (which hopefully we'll all be > able to find without too many problems). > > If you show up late, or can't find the booth, feel free to give me a > call, 416-508-5945. I was volunteering at the booth starting shortly after 1, but I didn't see any of you folks show up. Did you all in fact meet, or no? - Julian -- [ Julian C. Dunn * ] [ WWW: http://www.aquezada.com/staff/julian/ * PGP: 0xFDC205B9 ] [ "let's have a god who likes to party" - disappear fear ] From adrian@enfusion-group.com Thu May 01 01:34:20 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: gtasage.org-gtasage-members@gtasage.org Received: (qmail 26427 invoked by uid 500); 30 Apr 2003 21:34:20 -0400 From: Adrian Chung To: gtaSAGE-members Subject: Re: [gtaSAGE-members] Munch 'n Meet - Tomorrow (1:00PM). Message-ID: <20030501013420.GF26200@enfusion-group.com> Mail-Followup-To: gtaSAGE-members References: <20030429011420.GC26200@enfusion-group.com> <1051675799.1532.92.camel@jupiter.acf.aquezada.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <1051675799.1532.92.camel@jupiter.acf.aquezada.com> User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.1i X-Operating-System: Linux 2.4.18-26.7.xsmp i686 Organization: Enfusion Group Sender: gtasage-members-admin@gtasage.org Errors-To: gtasage-members-admin@gtasage.org X-BeenThere: gtasage-members@gtasage.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: aligning system and network administrators in the greater Toronto area. List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed Apr 30 21:35:01 2003 X-Original-Date: Wed, 30 Apr 2003 21:34:20 -0400 On Wed, Apr 30, 2003 at 12:09:59AM -0400, Julian C. Dunn wrote: > On Mon, 2003-04-28 at 21:14, Adrian Chung wrote: > > For anyone who's interested, we're still planning on meeting tomorrow > > at the RWL trade show for a quick meeting, and possibly some food. > > > > Since the MTCC is a large place, and meeting will be difficult, I > > suggest we congregate at the SAGE booth (which hopefully we'll all be > > able to find without too many problems). > > > > If you show up late, or can't find the booth, feel free to give me a > > call, 416-508-5945. > > I was volunteering at the booth starting shortly after 1, but I didn't > see any of you folks show up. Did you all in fact meet, or no? Were you volunteering today (as in Wednesday?) or on Tuesday? The meet was supposed to be on Tuesday (my message went out on Monday), but no one else showed up. I was at the booth for about 10 minutes or so between 1:15 and 1:25, and then disappeared for lunch with Duane. We'll have to arrange to do it again sometime. ;) -- Adrian Chung (adrian at enfusion-group dot com) http://www.enfusion-group.com/~adrian/ GPG Fingerprint: C620 C8EA 86BA 79CC 384C E7BE A10C 353B 919D 1A17 [gambit.enfusion-group.com] 9:32pm up 5 days, 22:21, 7 users From jdunn@aquezada.com Thu May 01 01:52:43 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: gtasage.org-gtasage-members@gtasage.org Received: (qmail 26888 invoked by uid 1004); 30 Apr 2003 21:52:43 -0400 Received: from jdunn@aquezada.com by enfusion-group.com with qmail-scanner; 01 May 2003 01:52:43 -0000 Received: from alumni-user101.dialin.utoronto.ca (205.211.129.101, claiming to be "aphrodite.aquezada.com") by gambit.enfusion-group.com with SMTP id smtpd5yIBs0; Wed, 30 Apr 2003 21:52:34 EDT Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by aphrodite.aquezada.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1149350C for ; Wed, 30 Apr 2003 21:52:11 -0400 (EDT) Received: from aphrodite.aquezada.com ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (aphrodite.acf.aquezada.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with LMTP id 20537-02 for ; Wed, 30 Apr 2003 21:52:09 -0400 (EDT) Received: from jupiter.acf.aquezada.com (jupiter.acf.aquezada.com [192.168.5.5]) by aphrodite.aquezada.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id BEAEF4E4 for ; Wed, 30 Apr 2003 21:52:09 -0400 (EDT) Received: by jupiter.acf.aquezada.com (Postfix, from userid 1001) id E100F53494; Wed, 30 Apr 2003 21:52:22 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Re: [gtaSAGE-members] Munch 'n Meet - Tomorrow (1:00PM). From: "Julian C. Dunn" To: gtaSAGE-members In-Reply-To: <20030501013420.GF26200@enfusion-group.com> References: <20030429011420.GC26200@enfusion-group.com> <1051675799.1532.92.camel@jupiter.acf.aquezada.com> <20030501013420.GF26200@enfusion-group.com> Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Organization: Aquezada Productions Message-Id: <1051753942.1531.99.camel@jupiter.acf.aquezada.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Ximian Evolution 1.2.2 (1.2.2-5) X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at aquezada.com Sender: gtasage-members-admin@gtasage.org Errors-To: gtasage-members-admin@gtasage.org X-BeenThere: gtasage-members@gtasage.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: aligning system and network administrators in the greater Toronto area. List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed Apr 30 21:53:00 2003 X-Original-Date: 30 Apr 2003 21:52:22 -0400 On Wed, 2003-04-30 at 21:34, Adrian Chung wrote: > Were you volunteering today (as in Wednesday?) or on Tuesday? The > meet was supposed to be on Tuesday (my message went out on Monday), > but no one else showed up. I was at the booth for about 10 minutes or > so between 1:15 and 1:25, and then disappeared for lunch with Duane. > > We'll have to arrange to do it again sometime. ;) Tuesday. My mail just got queued and wasn't sent out until just now. I guess I must have just missed you, although I swore that I showed up at the booth pretty close to 1. I was there all afternoon. - Julian -- [ Julian C. Dunn * ] [ WWW: http://www.aquezada.com/staff/julian/ * PGP: 0xFDC205B9 ] [ "let's have a god who likes to party" - disappear fear ] From adrian@enfusion-group.com Thu Jun 12 00:12:31 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: gtasage.org-gtasage-members@gtasage.org Received: (qmail 19769 invoked by uid 500); 11 Jun 2003 20:12:31 -0400 From: Adrian Chung To: gtaSAGE-members Message-ID: <20030612001231.GN29182@enfusion-group.com> Mail-Followup-To: gtaSAGE-members Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.1i X-Operating-System: Linux 2.4.20-13.7smp i686 Organization: Enfusion Group Subject: [gtaSAGE-members] Roaming Profiles on a MS Dfs Share? Sender: gtasage-members-admin@gtasage.org Errors-To: gtasage-members-admin@gtasage.org X-BeenThere: gtasage-members@gtasage.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: aligning system and network administrators in the greater Toronto area. List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed Jun 11 20:13:00 2003 X-Original-Date: Wed, 11 Jun 2003 20:12:31 -0400 I've been trying to find some information about recommended practice with regards to placing roaming profiles on a Dfs share. Dfs would allow fault tolerance for the profile share in the event one of the replicas goes away, without the need for setting up a cluster. Anyone have any wisdom regarding what's recommended in this area, or how well this works in practice? -- Adrian Chung (adrian at enfusion-group dot com) http://www.enfusion-group.com/~adrian/ GPG Fingerprint: C620 C8EA 86BA 79CC 384C E7BE A10C 353B 919D 1A17 [gambit.enfusion-group.com] 8:10pm up 18 days, 21:48, 8 users From duane@dbsconsulting.ca Thu Jun 12 20:55:41 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: gtasage.org-gtasage-members@gtasage.org Received: (qmail 23347 invoked by uid 1004); 12 Jun 2003 16:55:41 -0400 Received: from duane@dbsconsulting.ca by enfusion-group.com with qmail-scanner; 12 Jun 2003 20:55:41 -0000 Received: from CPE00d009d69398-CM0010951569b2.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com (24.153.43.190, claiming to be "solly") by gambit.enfusion-group.com with SMTP id smtpd3w7BNC; Thu, 12 Jun 2003 16:55:39 EDT Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by solly (8.12.5+Sun/8.12.5) with ESMTP id h5CKsqAI006832; Thu, 12 Jun 2003 16:54:53 -0400 (EDT) From: Duane Bedeau X-X-Sender: duane@solly.duanebedeau.com To: Adrian Chung cc: gtaSAGE-members Subject: Re: [gtaSAGE-members] Roaming Profiles on a MS Dfs Share? In-Reply-To: <20030612001231.GN29182@enfusion-group.com> Message-ID: References: <20030612001231.GN29182@enfusion-group.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: gtasage-members-admin@gtasage.org Errors-To: gtasage-members-admin@gtasage.org X-BeenThere: gtasage-members@gtasage.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: aligning system and network administrators in the greater Toronto area. List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu Jun 12 16:56:01 2003 X-Original-Date: Thu, 12 Jun 2003 16:54:52 -0400 (EDT) On Wed, 11 Jun 2003, Adrian Chung wrote: > I've been trying to find some information about recommended practice > with regards to placing roaming profiles on a Dfs share. > > Dfs would allow fault tolerance for the profile share in the event one > of the replicas goes away, without the need for setting up a cluster. > > Anyone have any wisdom regarding what's recommended in this area, or > how well this works in practice? Yes, DFS replication of such stuff is not recommended. I remember trying to do it before and it wasn't happy... This was with small files however ( ~ 1 meg in size)... There was also something I recall about the size of the staging area being a limiting factor for replication but alas, I cannot recall the specifics... check google! -- Duane Bedeau DBS Consulting Services Tel:(416)782-3514 http://www.dbsconsulting.ca Email:duane@dbsconsulting.ca From duane@dbsconsulting.ca Fri Jun 13 15:11:38 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: gtasage.org-gtasage-members@gtasage.org Received: (qmail 23402 invoked by uid 1004); 13 Jun 2003 11:11:38 -0400 Received: from duane@dbsconsulting.ca by enfusion-group.com with qmail-scanner; 13 Jun 2003 15:11:38 -0000 Received: from CPE00d009d69398-CM0010951569b2.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com (24.153.43.190, claiming to be "solly") by gambit.enfusion-group.com with SMTP id smtpdvpfKfu; Fri, 13 Jun 2003 11:11:28 EDT Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by solly (8.12.5+Sun/8.12.5) with ESMTP id h5DFAeAI007118 for ; Fri, 13 Jun 2003 11:10:40 -0400 (EDT) From: Duane Bedeau X-X-Sender: duane@solly.duanebedeau.com To: gtaSAGE-members Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Subject: [gtaSAGE-members] backup client Sender: gtasage-members-admin@gtasage.org Errors-To: gtasage-members-admin@gtasage.org X-BeenThere: gtasage-members@gtasage.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: aligning system and network administrators in the greater Toronto area. List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri Jun 13 11:12:01 2003 X-Original-Date: Fri, 13 Jun 2003 11:10:40 -0400 (EDT) Hey all, I'm looking for a graphical backup client/server for linux. I've tried Arkeia and storix but neither REALLY serves my purposes. Arkeia seems to need a paid license to work and storix doesn't allow me to restore individual files. Are they any others or should I just rely on old fashioned tar/cron? Thanks! -- Duane Bedeau DBS Consulting Services Tel:(416)782-3514 http://www.dbsconsulting.ca Email:duane@dbsconsulting.ca From tmh@whitefang.com Fri Jun 13 15:54:11 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: gtasage.org-gtasage-members@gtasage.org Received: (qmail 24854 invoked by uid 1004); 13 Jun 2003 11:54:11 -0400 Received: from tmh@whitefang.com by enfusion-group.com with qmail-scanner; 13 Jun 2003 15:54:11 -0000 Received: from helena.whitefang.com (216.254.175.50) by gambit.enfusion-group.com with SMTP id smtpd3jxrmb; Fri, 13 Jun 2003 11:54:05 EDT Received: (qmail 55090 invoked from network); 13 Jun 2003 15:54:24 -0000 Received: from helena.whitefang.com (216.254.175.50) by 0 with SMTP; 13 Jun 2003 15:54:24 -0000 From: Thamer Al-Harbash X-X-Sender: shadows@helena.whitefang.com To: gtaSAGE-members Subject: Re: [gtaSAGE-members] backup client In-Reply-To: Message-ID: References: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: gtasage-members-admin@gtasage.org Errors-To: gtasage-members-admin@gtasage.org X-BeenThere: gtasage-members@gtasage.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: aligning system and network administrators in the greater Toronto area. List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri Jun 13 11:55:01 2003 X-Original-Date: Fri, 13 Jun 2003 11:54:24 -0400 (EDT) On Fri, 13 Jun 2003, Duane Bedeau wrote: > Hey all, > > I'm looking for a graphical backup client/server for linux. I've tried > Arkeia and storix but neither REALLY serves my purposes. Arkeia > seems to need a paid license to work and storix doesn't allow me to restore > individual files. Are they any others or should I just rely on old fashioned > tar/cron? What's wrong with and croning it? What do you want out of a graphical client for something like backups? Also why do you want a client/server package for backups? -- Thamer Al-Harbash http://www.whitefang.com/ (if (> pressure too-much-pressure) 'flame 'work) From jdunn@aquezada.com Fri Jun 13 15:55:12 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: gtasage.org-gtasage-members@gtasage.org Received: (qmail 24914 invoked by uid 1004); 13 Jun 2003 11:55:12 -0400 Received: from jdunn@aquezada.com by enfusion-group.com with qmail-scanner; 13 Jun 2003 15:55:12 -0000 Received: from queen.torfree.net (199.71.188.22, claiming to be "windermere.tfnet.ca") by gambit.enfusion-group.com with SMTP id smtpdc7wMTq; Fri, 13 Jun 2003 11:55:07 EDT Received: from aphrodite.aquezada.com (H130.C231.tor.velocet.net [216.138.231.130]) by windermere.tfnet.ca (Postfix) with ESMTP id A1BEF7AAB8D; Fri, 13 Jun 2003 11:55:06 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by aphrodite.aquezada.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A3652124D; Fri, 13 Jun 2003 11:51:17 -0400 (EDT) Received: from aphrodite.aquezada.com ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (aphrodite.acf.aquezada.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with LMTP id 36175-05; Fri, 13 Jun 2003 11:51:16 -0400 (EDT) Received: by aphrodite.aquezada.com (Postfix, from userid 1001) id 068071249; Fri, 13 Jun 2003 11:51:15 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by aphrodite.aquezada.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 00012112E; Fri, 13 Jun 2003 11:51:15 -0400 (EDT) From: "Julian C. Dunn" To: Duane Bedeau Cc: gtaSAGE-members Subject: Re: [gtaSAGE-members] backup client In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20030613114938.E35860@aphrodite.acf.aquezada.com> References: Organization: Aquezada Productions MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at aquezada.com Sender: gtasage-members-admin@gtasage.org Errors-To: gtasage-members-admin@gtasage.org X-BeenThere: gtasage-members@gtasage.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: aligning system and network administrators in the greater Toronto area. List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri Jun 13 11:56:00 2003 X-Original-Date: Fri, 13 Jun 2003 11:51:15 -0400 (EDT) On Fri, 13 Jun 2003, Duane Bedeau wrote: > I'm looking for a graphical backup client/server for linux. I've tried > Arkeia and storix but neither REALLY serves my purposes. Arkeia > seems to need a paid license to work and storix doesn't allow me to restore > individual files. Are they any others or should I just rely on old fashioned > tar/cron? Why does it need to be graphical...? I used to have a homegrown tar script, but I've switched to AMANDA and I like it. It's a bit daunting to set up, but it works perfectly now, and uses the tape host's native backup tools like dump or ufsdump -- no proprietary tape formats here. There is an interactive FTP-like restore client, too. - Julian [ Julian C. Dunn * ] [ WWW: http://www.aquezada.com/staff/julian/ * PGP: 0xFDC205B9 ] [ "sometimes you win, sometimes you lose / and most times ] [ you choose between the two" - carole king, "sweet seasons" ] From fraser@wehave.net Fri Jun 13 19:00:23 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: gtasage.org-gtasage-members@gtasage.org Received: (qmail 30105 invoked by uid 1004); 13 Jun 2003 15:00:23 -0400 Received: from fraser@wehave.net by enfusion-group.com with qmail-scanner; 13 Jun 2003 19:00:23 -0000 Received: from mail.starnix.com (24.215.7.100) by gambit.enfusion-group.com with SMTP id smtpdfHkERp; Fri, 13 Jun 2003 15:00:18 EDT Received: from localhost (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by mail.starnix.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B321D3505B for ; Fri, 13 Jun 2003 15:14:08 -0400 (EDT) Received: from venus.starnix.com (unknown [216.13.14.132]) by mail.starnix.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id CD9103509A for ; Fri, 13 Jun 2003 15:14:00 -0400 (EDT) From: Fraser Campbell To: Subject: Re: [gtaSAGE-members] backup client User-Agent: KMail/1.5.2 References: <20030613114938.E35860@aphrodite.acf.aquezada.com> In-Reply-To: <20030613114938.E35860@aphrodite.acf.aquezada.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Message-Id: <200306131459.35746.fraser@wehave.net> X-Virus-Scanned: by Starnix Inc. Sender: gtasage-members-admin@gtasage.org Errors-To: gtasage-members-admin@gtasage.org X-BeenThere: gtasage-members@gtasage.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: aligning system and network administrators in the greater Toronto area. List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri Jun 13 15:01:01 2003 X-Original-Date: Fri, 13 Jun 2003 14:59:35 -0400 On Friday 13 June 2003 11:51, Julian C. Dunn wrote: > On Fri, 13 Jun 2003, Duane Bedeau wrote: > > I'm looking for a graphical backup client/server for linux. I've tried > > Arkeia and storix but neither REALLY serves my purposes. Arkeia > > seems to need a paid license to work and storix doesn't allow me to > > restore individual files. Are they any others or should I just rely on > > old fashioned tar/cron? > > Why does it need to be graphical...? > > I used to have a homegrown tar script, but I've switched to AMANDA and I > like it. It's a bit daunting to set up, but it works perfectly now, and > uses the tape host's native backup tools like dump or ufsdump -- no > proprietary tape formats here. There is an interactive FTP-like restore > client, too. I would second the amanda recommendation. I've used it in quite a few places and it's pretty much hands-off once setup. The interacive restore/index browser is *very* nice. There are shortcomings with amanda though: - doesn't support archiving to multiple tapes - doesn't support appending to tape, we have a client using 100GB tapes and their incrementals are in the 100s of MB, seems like a waste of tape almost - you need multiple configs if you want to have offsite backups (this one's easy enough to get around) The first issue is becoming a big problem for us. We have several filesystems that are well over the 20GB limit of our tapes, full dumps aren't possible unless we buy a larger capacity tape solution or split up those filesystems (doable of course). There is another backup system called afbackup that sounds very similar to amanda but it doesn't have the single tape limitation, or append to tape, limitations. I haven't tried afbackup yet, anyone here have experience with it? -- Fraser Campbell http://www.wehave.net/ Halton Hills, Ontario, Canada Debian GNU/Linux From scott5@ovsage.org Sat Jun 14 03:25:14 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: gtasage.org-gtasage-members@gtasage.org Received: (qmail 10745 invoked by uid 1004); 13 Jun 2003 23:25:13 -0400 Received: from scott5@ovsage.org by enfusion-group.com with qmail-scanner; 14 Jun 2003 03:25:13 -0000 Received: from scott5.istop.com (66.11.173.177, claiming to be "ovsage.org") by gambit.enfusion-group.com with SMTP id smtpdgQGeRD; Fri, 13 Jun 2003 23:25:06 EDT Received: (qmail 5528 invoked from network); 14 Jun 2003 03:25:04 -0000 Received: from pc-00065 (HELO twofish) (10.10.1.65) by gateway.ovsage.org (10.10.1.1) with SMTP; 14 Jun 2003 03:25:04 -0000 From: "D. Scott Murphy" To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: <20030613160000.25145.5300.Mailman@gambit.enfusion-group.com> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Subject: [gtaSAGE-members] RE: backup client (Duane Bedeau) Sender: gtasage-members-admin@gtasage.org Errors-To: gtasage-members-admin@gtasage.org X-BeenThere: gtasage-members@gtasage.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: aligning system and network administrators in the greater Toronto area. List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri Jun 13 23:26:00 2003 X-Original-Date: Fri, 13 Jun 2003 23:26:27 -0400 AMANDA is a great tool, even with the rather oddball configuration, it serves very well for backing up all manner of systems. I prefer using gnutar as the underlying engine rather than the dump, as I can always manipulate the files directly after the fact. In addition, if you configure in smbtar, you can back up windows machines as well. There was a great resource that explained the basics out there on a site called frankenlinux. It has vanished from the net, but I think I made a copy from google's cache of it when it vanished, but I'd have to look around a bit to find it. There is support for pretty much any variety of backup device, as well as just dumping to a file. Yahoo groups has an AMANDA users group out there, and it is loaded with info. The biggest problem is the sheer mass of data and the way yahoo performs a search. If you are just backing up one machine, it is a bit of overkill, but the exercise of setting it up will be of great value for any future use, as the client setup is very simple once you have configured the server portion. The AMANDA portion of Curtis Preston's book "Unix Backup & Recovery" is available on line at http://www.backupcentral.com/amanda. If you are looking for a drive/partition snapshot utility, try http://www.partimage.org. There are also a few HOWTO's out there if you look. Scott From adrian@enfusion-group.com Sat Jun 14 23:36:21 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: gtasage.org-gtasage-members@gtasage.org Received: (qmail 11158 invoked by uid 500); 14 Jun 2003 19:36:21 -0400 From: Adrian Chung To: gtaSAGE-members Message-ID: <20030614233621.GP29182@enfusion-group.com> Mail-Followup-To: gtaSAGE-members Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.1i X-Operating-System: Linux 2.4.20-13.7smp i686 Organization: Enfusion Group Subject: [gtaSAGE-members] Dovecot IMAP daemon. Sender: gtasage-members-admin@gtasage.org Errors-To: gtasage-members-admin@gtasage.org X-BeenThere: gtasage-members@gtasage.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: aligning system and network administrators in the greater Toronto area. List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sat Jun 14 19:37:01 2003 X-Original-Date: Sat, 14 Jun 2003 19:36:21 -0400 Anyone ever used the Dovecot IMAP daemon? It touts that it's the fastest IMAP daemon around... Not sure whether it supports vpopmail authentication though. -- Adrian Chung (adrian at enfusion-group dot com) http://www.enfusion-group.com/~adrian/ GPG Fingerprint: C620 C8EA 86BA 79CC 384C E7BE A10C 353B 919D 1A17 [gambit.enfusion-group.com] 7:35pm up 21 days, 21:12, 8 users From duane@dbsconsulting.ca Mon Jun 16 02:19:28 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: gtasage.org-gtasage-members@gtasage.org Received: (qmail 26722 invoked by uid 1004); 15 Jun 2003 22:19:28 -0400 Received: from duane@dbsconsulting.ca by enfusion-group.com with qmail-scanner; 16 Jun 2003 02:19:28 -0000 Received: from CPE00d009d69398-CM0010951569b2.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com (24.153.43.190, claiming to be "solly") by gambit.enfusion-group.com with SMTP id smtpdhML7xi; Sun, 15 Jun 2003 22:19:23 EDT Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by solly (8.12.5+Sun/8.12.5) with ESMTP id h5G2IYAI007957; Sun, 15 Jun 2003 22:18:34 -0400 (EDT) From: Duane Bedeau X-X-Sender: duane@solly.duanebedeau.com To: Adrian Chung cc: gtaSAGE-members Subject: Re: [gtaSAGE-members] Dovecot IMAP daemon. In-Reply-To: <20030614233621.GP29182@enfusion-group.com> Message-ID: References: <20030614233621.GP29182@enfusion-group.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: gtasage-members-admin@gtasage.org Errors-To: gtasage-members-admin@gtasage.org X-BeenThere: gtasage-members@gtasage.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: aligning system and network administrators in the greater Toronto area. List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sun Jun 15 22:20:01 2003 X-Original-Date: Sun, 15 Jun 2003 22:18:33 -0400 (EDT) On Sat, 14 Jun 2003, Adrian Chung wrote: > Anyone ever used the Dovecot IMAP daemon? It touts that it's the > fastest IMAP daemon around... Not sure whether it supports vpopmail > authentication though. Taken from: http://dovecot.procontrol.fi/doc/auth.txt Currently supported password databases: - passwd: /etc/passwd or similiar, using getpwnam() - shadow: /etc/shadow or similiar, using getspnam() - pam: Pluggable Authentication Modules - passwd-file: /etc/passwd-like file in specified location - ldap: Lightweight Directory Access Protocol - vpopmail: External software used to handle virtual domains - pgsql: A PostgreSQL database. So there you are.. It does support vpopmail! -- Duane Bedeau DBS Consulting Services Tel:(416)782-3514 http://www.dbsconsulting.ca Email:duane@dbsconsulting.ca From duane@dbsconsulting.ca Mon Jun 16 02:26:19 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: gtasage.org-gtasage-members@gtasage.org Received: (qmail 26963 invoked by uid 1004); 15 Jun 2003 22:26:19 -0400 Received: from duane@dbsconsulting.ca by enfusion-group.com with qmail-scanner; 16 Jun 2003 02:26:19 -0000 Received: from CPE00d009d69398-CM0010951569b2.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com (24.153.43.190, claiming to be "solly") by gambit.enfusion-group.com with SMTP id smtpdglHJvf; Sun, 15 Jun 2003 22:26:10 EDT Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by solly (8.12.5+Sun/8.12.5) with ESMTP id h5G2PMAI007961 for ; Sun, 15 Jun 2003 22:25:22 -0400 (EDT) From: Duane Bedeau X-X-Sender: duane@solly.duanebedeau.com To: gtaSAGE-members Subject: Re: [gtaSAGE-members] backup client In-Reply-To: <20030613114938.E35860@aphrodite.acf.aquezada.com> Message-ID: References: <20030613114938.E35860@aphrodite.acf.aquezada.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: gtasage-members-admin@gtasage.org Errors-To: gtasage-members-admin@gtasage.org X-BeenThere: gtasage-members@gtasage.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: aligning system and network administrators in the greater Toronto area. List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sun Jun 15 22:27:01 2003 X-Original-Date: Sun, 15 Jun 2003 22:25:22 -0400 (EDT) On Fri, 13 Jun 2003, Julian C. Dunn wrote: > On Fri, 13 Jun 2003, Duane Bedeau wrote: > > > I'm looking for a graphical backup client/server for linux. I've tried > > Arkeia and storix but neither REALLY serves my purposes. Arkeia > > seems to need a paid license to work and storix doesn't allow me to restore > > individual files. Are they any others or should I just rely on old fashioned > > tar/cron? > > Why does it need to be graphical...? Let's just assume that it does have to be graphical for whatever reason > I used to have a homegrown tar script, but I've switched to AMANDA and I > like it. It's a bit daunting to set up, but it works perfectly now, and > uses the tape host's native backup tools like dump or ufsdump -- no > proprietary tape formats here. There is an interactive FTP-like restore > client, too. Yes, I've done the homegrown tar thing and I've looked at AMANDA... homegrown tar does indeed backup/restore but there's no way for me to see ahead of time how much data I've backed up so far (and conversely, how much more left to go) while it's running... It's not a huge issue, and currently I'm using tar to dump my stuff to tape but it just seems so 1980s'ish! -- Duane Bedeau DBS Consulting Services Tel:(416)782-3514 http://www.dbsconsulting.ca Email:duane@dbsconsulting.ca From adrian@enfusion-group.com Mon Jun 16 02:32:37 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: gtasage.org-gtasage-members@gtasage.org Received: (qmail 27236 invoked by uid 500); 15 Jun 2003 22:32:36 -0400 From: Adrian Chung To: gtaSAGE-members Subject: Re: [gtaSAGE-members] Dovecot IMAP daemon. Message-ID: <20030616023236.GA24130@enfusion-group.com> Mail-Followup-To: gtaSAGE-members References: <20030614233621.GP29182@enfusion-group.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.1i X-Operating-System: Linux 2.4.20-13.7smp i686 Organization: Enfusion Group Sender: gtasage-members-admin@gtasage.org Errors-To: gtasage-members-admin@gtasage.org X-BeenThere: gtasage-members@gtasage.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: aligning system and network administrators in the greater Toronto area. List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sun Jun 15 22:33:01 2003 X-Original-Date: Sun, 15 Jun 2003 22:32:36 -0400 On Sun, Jun 15, 2003 at 10:18:33PM -0400, Duane Bedeau wrote: > On Sat, 14 Jun 2003, Adrian Chung wrote: > > > Anyone ever used the Dovecot IMAP daemon? It touts that it's the > > fastest IMAP daemon around... Not sure whether it supports vpopmail > > authentication though. > > Taken from: http://dovecot.procontrol.fi/doc/auth.txt > > Currently supported password databases: > > - passwd: /etc/passwd or similiar, using getpwnam() > - shadow: /etc/shadow or similiar, using getspnam() > - pam: Pluggable Authentication Modules > - passwd-file: /etc/passwd-like file in specified location > - ldap: Lightweight Directory Access Protocol > - vpopmail: External software used to handle virtual domains > - pgsql: A PostgreSQL database. > > So there you are.. It does support vpopmail! Heh, I looked at this afterwards, and then I decided to try it out. On a 3000 message mailbox, it definitely opens and sorts faster than Courier IMAP, visually, I'd say almost twice as fast -- which is really good. But, I've got both system accounts, and vpopmail accounts, so I've currently got Courier setup to do both (which is easy to do with it's authdaemon). Trying to do the same with Dovecot just didn't work out. Setting Dovecot up to use both passwd and vpopmail causes it to not authenticate either type of account. Ah well, it's promising, but not there yet. -- Adrian Chung (adrian at enfusion-group dot com) http://www.enfusion-group.com/~adrian/ GPG Fingerprint: C620 C8EA 86BA 79CC 384C E7BE A10C 353B 919D 1A17 [gambit.enfusion-group.com] up 23 days, 8 min, 8 users From robert@timetraveller.org Mon Jun 16 03:14:22 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: gtasage.org-gtasage-members@gtasage.org Received: (qmail 28486 invoked by uid 1004); 15 Jun 2003 23:14:22 -0400 Received: from robert@timetraveller.org by enfusion-group.com with qmail-scanner; 16 Jun 2003 03:14:22 -0000 Received: from UNKNOWN (203.23.43.9, claiming to be "blake.timetraveller.org") by gambit.enfusion-group.com with SMTP id smtpdig6hhK; Sun, 15 Jun 2003 23:14:17 EDT Received: from blake.timetraveller.org (blake.timetraveller.org [203.23.43.10]) by blake.timetraveller.org (8.12.3/8.12.3) with ESMTP id h5G3EA8U030362 for ; Mon, 16 Jun 2003 13:14:11 +1000 From: Robert Brockway To: gtaSAGE-members Subject: Re: [gtaSAGE-members] backup client In-Reply-To: Message-ID: References: <20030613114938.E35860@aphrodite.acf.aquezada.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: gtasage-members-admin@gtasage.org Errors-To: gtasage-members-admin@gtasage.org X-BeenThere: gtasage-members@gtasage.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: aligning system and network administrators in the greater Toronto area. List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sun Jun 15 23:15:01 2003 X-Original-Date: Sun, 15 Jun 2003 23:14:10 -0400 (EDT) On Sun, 15 Jun 2003, Duane Bedeau wrote: > Yes, I've done the homegrown tar thing and I've looked at AMANDA... > homegrown tar does indeed backup/restore but there's no way for me to see > ahead of time how much data I've backed up so far (and conversely, > how much more left to go) while it's running... It's not a huge issue, The dump family (dump, ufsdump, xfsdump, etc, etc) do this nicely, providing periodical output of how much data is left to dump and an estimate of the time to completion. You'd need to look for a seperate gui frontend though. There is a dump suitable for just about every unix filesystem. Reiserfs is a notable exceptiom (despite the existance of a reiserdump which is really just a frontend to tar). > and currently I'm using tar to dump my stuff to tape but it just seems so > 1980s'ish! If it ain't broke don't fix it :) Seriously, tar does have an enduring quality. Tools like cpio which were claimed to be "a better tar than tar" have failed to knock tar off its perch as the pre-eminant unix archival tool. I think this is a combination of legacy and suitability. Unless a tool comes out which is _significantly_ better than tar at doing certain jobs few will have the inclination to learn a new tool when tar does "well enough". Rob -- Robert Brockway B.Sc. email: robert@timetraveller.org ICQ: 104781119 Linux counter project ID #16440 (http://counter.li.org) "The earth is but one country and mankind its citizens" -Baha'u'llah From jdunn@aquezada.com Mon Jun 16 03:35:13 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: gtasage.org-gtasage-members@gtasage.org Received: (qmail 29109 invoked by uid 1004); 15 Jun 2003 23:35:13 -0400 Received: from jdunn@aquezada.com by enfusion-group.com with qmail-scanner; 16 Jun 2003 03:35:13 -0000 Received: from queen.torfree.net (199.71.188.22, claiming to be "windermere.tfnet.ca") by gambit.enfusion-group.com with SMTP id smtpd9V6HpM; Sun, 15 Jun 2003 23:35:08 EDT Received: from aphrodite.aquezada.com (H130.C231.tor.velocet.net [216.138.231.130]) by windermere.tfnet.ca (Postfix) with ESMTP id B13067AAC7D for ; Sun, 15 Jun 2003 23:35:07 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by aphrodite.aquezada.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2105F9AC for ; Sun, 15 Jun 2003 23:29:18 -0400 (EDT) Received: from aphrodite.aquezada.com ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (aphrodite.acf.aquezada.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with LMTP id 53337-02-3 for ; Sun, 15 Jun 2003 23:29:16 -0400 (EDT) Received: from jupiter.acf.aquezada.com (jupiter.acf.aquezada.com [192.168.5.5]) by aphrodite.aquezada.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 49F213E0 for ; Sun, 15 Jun 2003 23:29:16 -0400 (EDT) Received: by jupiter.acf.aquezada.com (Postfix, from userid 1001) id 82C145332D; Sun, 15 Jun 2003 23:35:01 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Re: [gtaSAGE-members] backup client From: "Julian C. Dunn" To: gtasage-members@gtasage.org In-Reply-To: References: <20030613114938.E35860@aphrodite.acf.aquezada.com> Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="=-dNnfTnr51+48cOvVO/jx" Organization: Aquezada Productions Message-Id: <1055734500.2749.18.camel@jupiter.acf.aquezada.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Ximian Evolution 1.3.92 (Preview Release) X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at aquezada.com Sender: gtasage-members-admin@gtasage.org Errors-To: gtasage-members-admin@gtasage.org X-BeenThere: gtasage-members@gtasage.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: aligning system and network administrators in the greater Toronto area. List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sun Jun 15 23:36:00 2003 X-Original-Date: 15 Jun 2003 23:35:01 -0400 --=-dNnfTnr51+48cOvVO/jx Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Sun, 2003-06-15 at 23:14, Robert Brockway wrote: > > Yes, I've done the homegrown tar thing and I've looked at AMANDA... > > homegrown tar does indeed backup/restore but there's no way for me to s= ee > > ahead of time how much data I've backed up so far (and conversely, > > how much more left to go) while it's running... It's not a huge issue, >=20 > The dump family (dump, ufsdump, xfsdump, etc, etc) do this nicely, > providing periodical output of how much data is left to dump and an > estimate of the time to completion. You'd need to look for a seperate gu= i > frontend though. There is a dump suitable for just about every unix > filesystem. Reiserfs is a notable exceptiom (despite the existance of a > reiserdump which is really just a frontend to tar). To sell AMANDA again -- while AMANDA jobs run in the background, you can always use amstatus(8) to display the current status of any AMANDA operation. I checked and AMANDA also can use GNU tar if you prefer that to the host system's dump command. Making the point about GUIs again: given the choice between working backups and a nice GUI, it's pretty clear what SAs everywhere should choose. That isn't to say that there aren't good backup tools out there with fancy GUIs -- Arkeia is actually not bad, unless you employ a tape-changing monkey who forgets to change the tapes and then you have to feed tapes to the damn thing by hand so it relearns its indices (this actually happened) -- but by and large, my experience has been that the tools that work, and work reliably, don't have fancy GUIs. (And hello to my esteemed colleague Robert) - Julian --=20 [ Julian C. Dunn * ] [ WWW: http://www.aquezada.com/staff/julian/ * PGP: 0xFDC205B9 ] [ "sometimes you win, sometimes you lose / and most times ] [ you choose between the two" - carole king, "sweet seasons" ] --=-dNnfTnr51+48cOvVO/jx Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name=signature.asc Content-Description: This is a digitally signed message part -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.2 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQA+7TrkYGXVM/3CBbkRAgpYAJ4y6Ad1i5v/nWijUURuOQeOcP8oigCg7Coy Ofm5NHwWCuNH/KcK3TV5Ffw= =p7UM -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --=-dNnfTnr51+48cOvVO/jx-- From tmh@whitefang.com Mon Jun 16 06:47:45 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: gtasage.org-gtasage-members@gtasage.org Received: (qmail 1925 invoked by uid 1004); 16 Jun 2003 02:47:45 -0400 Received: from tmh@whitefang.com by enfusion-group.com with qmail-scanner; 16 Jun 2003 06:47:45 -0000 Received: from helena.whitefang.com (216.254.175.50) by gambit.enfusion-group.com with SMTP id smtpdUwF5k9; Mon, 16 Jun 2003 02:47:40 EDT Received: (qmail 74700 invoked from network); 16 Jun 2003 06:47:56 -0000 Received: from helena.whitefang.com (216.254.175.50) by 0 with SMTP; 16 Jun 2003 06:47:56 -0000 From: Thamer Al-Harbash X-X-Sender: shadows@helena.whitefang.com To: gtaSAGE-members Subject: Re: [gtaSAGE-members] backup client In-Reply-To: Message-ID: References: <20030613114938.E35860@aphrodite.acf.aquezada.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: gtasage-members-admin@gtasage.org Errors-To: gtasage-members-admin@gtasage.org X-BeenThere: gtasage-members@gtasage.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: aligning system and network administrators in the greater Toronto area. List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon Jun 16 02:48:01 2003 X-Original-Date: Mon, 16 Jun 2003 02:47:55 -0400 (EDT) On Sun, 15 Jun 2003, Duane Bedeau wrote: > It's not a huge issue, > and currently I'm using tar to dump my stuff to tape but it just seems so > 1980s'ish! What I cannot understand, and maybe you can clarify this for me, is why anyone would want to run something graphical for a routine job? It's far better to write an automated script which sends you a descriptive email every night than to run a GUI frontend and manually perform a repetitive duty. Is marketing making you do this? -- Thamer Al-Harbash http://www.whitefang.com/ (if (> pressure too-much-pressure) 'flame 'work) From duane@dbsconsulting.ca Mon Jun 16 18:10:38 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: gtasage.org-gtasage-members@gtasage.org Received: (qmail 24386 invoked by uid 1004); 16 Jun 2003 14:10:38 -0400 Received: from duane@dbsconsulting.ca by enfusion-group.com with qmail-scanner; 16 Jun 2003 18:10:38 -0000 Received: from CPE00d009d69398-CM0010951569b2.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com (24.153.43.190, claiming to be "solly") by gambit.enfusion-group.com with SMTP id smtpdQeAYg2; Mon, 16 Jun 2003 14:10:30 EDT Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by solly (8.12.5+Sun/8.12.5) with ESMTP id h5GI9gAI008231 for ; Mon, 16 Jun 2003 14:09:42 -0400 (EDT) From: Duane Bedeau X-X-Sender: duane@solly.duanebedeau.com To: gtaSAGE-members Subject: Re: [gtaSAGE-members] backup client In-Reply-To: Message-ID: References: <20030613114938.E35860@aphrodite.acf.aquezada.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: gtasage-members-admin@gtasage.org Errors-To: gtasage-members-admin@gtasage.org X-BeenThere: gtasage-members@gtasage.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: aligning system and network administrators in the greater Toronto area. List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon Jun 16 14:11:00 2003 X-Original-Date: Mon, 16 Jun 2003 14:09:42 -0400 (EDT) On Mon, 16 Jun 2003, Thamer Al-Harbash wrote: > On Sun, 15 Jun 2003, Duane Bedeau wrote: > > What I cannot understand, and maybe you can clarify this for me, > is why anyone would want to run something graphical for a routine > job? It's far better to write an automated script which sends you > a descriptive email every night than to run a GUI frontend and > manually perform a repetitive duty. Well I suppose this is out of context but this isn't what you guys may think! This is for home personal use... I'd like to stick a tape in, spike up the backup process (which is 99% of the time going to be a full backup) and know when it's done so I can use my box again. While yes I can do this easily at night but's not the point really... It's similar to someone asking for an X based calculator... Yes they can run bc in an xterm OR they can use xcalc... If a nice GUI for backups existed, I'd like to know about it but if not then... I'll just chug along with tar at night... no biggie... > Is marketing making you do this? Naw, at work we use Netbackup WITH guis I might add :) -- Duane Bedeau DBS Consulting Services Tel:(416)782-3514 http://www.dbsconsulting.ca Email:duane@dbsconsulting.ca From robert@timetraveller.org Mon Jun 16 18:32:09 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: gtasage.org-gtasage-members@gtasage.org Received: (qmail 25066 invoked by uid 1004); 16 Jun 2003 14:32:09 -0400 Received: from robert@timetraveller.org by enfusion-group.com with qmail-scanner; 16 Jun 2003 18:32:09 -0000 Received: from UNKNOWN (203.23.43.9, claiming to be "blake.timetraveller.org") by gambit.enfusion-group.com with SMTP id smtpd1jsb44; Mon, 16 Jun 2003 14:31:59 EDT Received: from blake.timetraveller.org (blake.timetraveller.org [203.23.43.10]) by blake.timetraveller.org (8.12.3/8.12.3) with ESMTP id h5GIVu8U003553 for ; Tue, 17 Jun 2003 04:31:57 +1000 From: Robert Brockway To: gtaSAGE-members Subject: Re: [gtaSAGE-members] backup client In-Reply-To: Message-ID: References: <20030613114938.E35860@aphrodite.acf.aquezada.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: gtasage-members-admin@gtasage.org Errors-To: gtasage-members-admin@gtasage.org X-BeenThere: gtasage-members@gtasage.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: aligning system and network administrators in the greater Toronto area. List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon Jun 16 14:33:00 2003 X-Original-Date: Mon, 16 Jun 2003 14:31:56 -0400 (EDT) On Mon, 16 Jun 2003, Duane Bedeau wrote: > Well I suppose this is out of context but this isn't what you guys may > think! This is for home personal use... I'd like to stick a tape in, > spike up the backup process (which is 99% of the time going to be a full You can really extend the life of your tapes by doing only periodic full backups. I only do full backups (level 0 dump) once per month on my home systems with level 1 and 2 dump at 10 day intervals, and level 5 dumps each other day. I designed this to reduce the amount of backing up that occurs (saves media, and is faster) and the expense of a longer full restore time (however full restores are catastrophic events and so are by their nature, far rarer than backups). I have instituted systems like this at work places as well, and they have worked well. This is only a quick overview of the system I used but I'd be happy to expand on it. Rob -- Robert Brockway B.Sc. email: robert@timetraveller.org ICQ: 104781119 Linux counter project ID #16440 (http://counter.li.org) "The earth is but one country and mankind its citizens" -Baha'u'llah From tmh@whitefang.com Mon Jun 16 19:35:14 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: gtasage.org-gtasage-members@gtasage.org Received: (qmail 26884 invoked by uid 1004); 16 Jun 2003 15:35:14 -0400 Received: from tmh@whitefang.com by enfusion-group.com with qmail-scanner; 16 Jun 2003 19:35:14 -0000 Received: from helena.whitefang.com (216.254.175.50) by gambit.enfusion-group.com with SMTP id smtpdVnQzZn; Mon, 16 Jun 2003 15:35:08 EDT Received: (qmail 78527 invoked from network); 16 Jun 2003 19:35:26 -0000 Received: from helena.whitefang.com (216.254.175.50) by 0 with SMTP; 16 Jun 2003 19:35:26 -0000 From: Thamer Al-Harbash X-X-Sender: shadows@helena.whitefang.com To: gtaSAGE-members Subject: Re: [gtaSAGE-members] backup client In-Reply-To: Message-ID: References: <20030613114938.E35860@aphrodite.acf.aquezada.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: gtasage-members-admin@gtasage.org Errors-To: gtasage-members-admin@gtasage.org X-BeenThere: gtasage-members@gtasage.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: aligning system and network administrators in the greater Toronto area. List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon Jun 16 15:35:59 2003 X-Original-Date: Mon, 16 Jun 2003 15:35:26 -0400 (EDT) On Mon, 16 Jun 2003, Duane Bedeau wrote: > Well I suppose this is out of context but this isn't what you guys may > think! This is for home personal use... I'd like to stick a tape in, > spike up the backup process (which is 99% of the time going to be a full > backup) and know when it's done so I can use my box again. While yes I > can do this easily at night but's not the point really... Oh, I see now. I didn't mean to prod you there. I just realized I asked the same question twice and kinda forced it out of you. My apologies. Obligatory instant google hit (with more discussion): http://www.mail-archive.com/amanda-users@amanda.org/msg18929.html Have you looked into Mandrake Linux? They may have a point and drool tool for doing backups. If not it they should soon. Just becareful, the drool might hit the keyboard and reprogram your pico bindings. -- Thamer Al-Harbash http://www.whitefang.com/ (if (> pressure too-much-pressure) 'flame 'work) From fraser@wehave.net Mon Jun 16 21:05:09 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: gtasage.org-gtasage-members@gtasage.org Received: (qmail 29607 invoked by uid 1004); 16 Jun 2003 17:05:09 -0400 Received: from fraser@wehave.net by enfusion-group.com with qmail-scanner; 16 Jun 2003 21:05:09 -0000 Received: from tomts11.bellnexxia.net (209.226.175.55, claiming to be "tomts11-srv.bellnexxia.net") by gambit.enfusion-group.com with SMTP id smtpdKKp9b4; Mon, 16 Jun 2003 17:05:00 EDT Received: from shieldaig.wehave.net ([65.95.81.89]) by tomts11-srv.bellnexxia.net (InterMail vM.5.01.05.32 201-253-122-126-132-20030307) with ESMTP id <20030616204948.KSAH1189.tomts11-srv.bellnexxia.net@shieldaig.wehave.net> for ; Mon, 16 Jun 2003 16:49:48 -0400 Received: from shieldaig.wehave.net (shieldaig.wehave.net [10.142.254.1]) by shieldaig.wehave.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id B35A2EFB for ; Mon, 16 Jun 2003 16:49:46 -0400 (EDT) From: Fraser Campbell To: gtasage-members@gtasage.org Subject: Re: [gtaSAGE-members] backup client User-Agent: KMail/1.5.2 References: <20030613114938.E35860@aphrodite.acf.aquezada.com> In-Reply-To: <20030613114938.E35860@aphrodite.acf.aquezada.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Message-Id: <200306161649.46446.fraser@wehave.net> Sender: gtasage-members-admin@gtasage.org Errors-To: gtasage-members-admin@gtasage.org X-BeenThere: gtasage-members@gtasage.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: aligning system and network administrators in the greater Toronto area. List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon Jun 16 17:06:01 2003 X-Original-Date: Mon, 16 Jun 2003 16:49:46 -0400 Hi, A quick tip regarding my most recent amanda experience ... We had a client call us asking for help with restoring a machine in which the disk had completely died. The machine had been backed up with amanda and thankfully the backups were good. Still how to get the amanda images spread across multiple tapes onto the new drives with the least amount of fuss? We were basically considering two options: - minimal install of their redhat system (enough to get the amanda utilities) - use a Linux rescue disk (such as tomsrtbt) and tar/dd/mt to get the os on the new disks. The rescue disk approach would have required either a local tape drive or [rs]sh plus we would have had to figure out in advance which tapes had the full backups and which had the incrementals (about 5 partitions each with data spread over 3 or 4 tapes). Thankfully before resorting to either of the above I booted up my Knoppix CD. Wouldn't you know it, they bundled the amanda utilities. So with amamda/knoppix the restore procedure became: - boot knoppix - create, format and mount partitions on new drives (we talked them into software raid) - run amrecover (or was it amrestore) to restore os and data - install boot loader - reboot, back into normal operation The system was fully restored and operational within an hour. amrecover made the job trivial ... put in tape03, press Y, put in tape01, press Y, etc. For those who haven't heard of Knoppix it's a bootable compressed Linux CD with over 2GB of software on it. It auto-detects most hardware and makes a great rescue system, or a fairly slow desktop/demo system. Can be downloaded from http://www.knopper.net/knoppix/index-en.html -- Fraser Campbell http://www.wehave.net/ Halton Hills, Ontario, Canada Debian GNU/Linux From duane@dbsconsulting.ca Mon Jun 16 21:14:10 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: gtasage.org-gtasage-members@gtasage.org Received: (qmail 29915 invoked by uid 1004); 16 Jun 2003 17:14:10 -0400 Received: from duane@dbsconsulting.ca by enfusion-group.com with qmail-scanner; 16 Jun 2003 21:14:10 -0000 Received: from CPE00d009d69398-CM0010951569b2.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com (24.153.43.190, claiming to be "solly") by gambit.enfusion-group.com with SMTP id smtpdrr4oPl; Mon, 16 Jun 2003 17:14:06 EDT Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by solly (8.12.5+Sun/8.12.5) with ESMTP id h5GLDHAI008297 for ; Mon, 16 Jun 2003 17:13:18 -0400 (EDT) From: Duane Bedeau X-X-Sender: duane@solly.duanebedeau.com To: gtaSAGE-members Subject: Re: [gtaSAGE-members] backup client In-Reply-To: Message-ID: References: <20030613114938.E35860@aphrodite.acf.aquezada.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: gtasage-members-admin@gtasage.org Errors-To: gtasage-members-admin@gtasage.org X-BeenThere: gtasage-members@gtasage.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: aligning system and network administrators in the greater Toronto area. List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon Jun 16 17:15:01 2003 X-Original-Date: Mon, 16 Jun 2003 17:13:17 -0400 (EDT) On Mon, 16 Jun 2003, Thamer Al-Harbash wrote: > On Mon, 16 Jun 2003, Duane Bedeau wrote: > > Have you looked into Mandrake Linux? They may have a point and > drool tool for doing backups. If not it they should soon. Hmmmm... change from Slackware to Mandrake just to get a gui which may or may not exist? Also, if I'm not mistaken (and I could be, I'm due to be for today) there's no such beast as a Mandrake (Redhat/Suse/Debian) only app. Therefore, if it exists for Mandrake, it exists for all Anyways, this is most definitely mountain from mole-hill territory so we'll just leave it.. Oh and to the other post about tape life... the point is taken and noted... Thanks! I cycle through 6 times doing a full backup say once-monthly and saving other stuff periodically when needed... -- Duane Bedeau DBS Consulting Services Tel:(416)782-3514 http://www.dbsconsulting.ca Email:duane@dbsconsulting.ca From scott5@ovsage.org Wed Jun 18 02:36:01 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: gtasage.org-gtasage-members@gtasage.org Received: (qmail 16015 invoked by uid 1004); 17 Jun 2003 22:36:01 -0400 Received: from scott5@ovsage.org by enfusion-group.com with qmail-scanner; 18 Jun 2003 02:36:01 -0000 Received: from scott5.istop.com (66.11.173.177, claiming to be "ovsage.org") by gambit.enfusion-group.com with SMTP id smtpdBbyfZX; Tue, 17 Jun 2003 22:35:55 EDT Received: (qmail 17352 invoked from network); 18 Jun 2003 02:35:54 -0000 Received: from pc-00065 (HELO twofish) (10.10.1.65) by gateway.ovsage.org (10.10.1.1) with SMTP; 18 Jun 2003 02:35:54 -0000 From: "D. Scott Murphy" To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: <20030617160001.30147.64305.Mailman@gambit.enfusion-group.com> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Subject: [gtaSAGE-members] RE: The great ongoing GUI backup debate :) Sender: gtasage-members-admin@gtasage.org Errors-To: gtasage-members-admin@gtasage.org X-BeenThere: gtasage-members@gtasage.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: aligning system and network administrators in the greater Toronto area. List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue Jun 17 22:37:01 2003 X-Original-Date: Tue, 17 Jun 2003 22:37:33 -0400 There is a sourceforge project called bacula, which is supposed to be a GUI tools for this type of thing. I haven't used it, but it does look promising. It may be a lot of work to configure, but there is extensive documentation on the site. It runs a number of daemon processes, and has a management console program, both terminal and GUI. http://www.bacula.org Scott From adrian@enfusion-group.com Sat Jun 28 18:19:04 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: gtasage.org-gtasage-members@gtasage.org Received: (qmail 18370 invoked by uid 500); 28 Jun 2003 14:19:04 -0400 From: Adrian Chung To: gtaSAGE-members Message-ID: <20030628181904.GY18146@enfusion-group.com> Mail-Followup-To: gtaSAGE-members Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.1i X-Operating-System: Linux 2.4.20-13.7smp i686 Organization: Enfusion Group Subject: [gtaSAGE-members] Ultra5 won't boot anymore. Sender: gtasage-members-admin@gtasage.org Errors-To: gtasage-members-admin@gtasage.org X-BeenThere: gtasage-members@gtasage.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: aligning system and network administrators in the greater Toronto area. List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sat Jun 28 14:20:01 2003 X-Original-Date: Sat, 28 Jun 2003 14:19:04 -0400 Being SPARC illiterate, I'm hoping that someone else might be able to point me in the right direction. After a few power outages over the past few days, my Sun Ultra5 now says this when it boots up: Hardware Power ON @(#) Sun Ultra 5/10 UPA/PCI 3.25 Version 1 created 2000/01/14 13:40 Probing keyboard Done %o0 = 0000.0000.00ff.4001 Executing Power On SelfTest @(#) Sun Ultra 5/10 (Darwin) POST 3.0.8 (Build No. 623) 16:05 on 01/14/00 CPU: UltraSPARC-LC (Clock Frequency: 400MHz, Ecache Size: -1360KB) Time Stamp [hour:min:sec] ff:ff:ff [month/date year] ff/ff 2133 Init POST BSS Init System BSS MESSAGE=NVRAM at U1402 is not present/good addr ffffffff.f1001db0 exp 0000 obs ffff Time Stamp [hour:min:sec] ff:ff:ff [month/date year] ff/ff 2133 NVRAM NVRAM Battery Detect Test MESSAGE=NVRAM Low Battery addr 000001ff.f1001ff0 exp ef obs ff NVRAM Scratch Addr Test MESSAGE=Data miss compare addr ffffffff.f1001d00 exp 00000000.00000000 obs 00000000.ffffffff NVRAM Scratch Data Test MESSAGE=Data miss compare addr ffffffff.f1001d00 exp 55555555.55555555 obs ffffffff.ffffffff MESSAGE=Data miss compare addr ffffffff.f1001d00 exp 55555555.55555555 obs ffffffff.ffffffff MESSAGE=Data miss compare addr ffffffff.f1001d00 exp 55555555.55555555 obs ffffffff.ffffffff MESSAGE=Data miss compare addr ffffffff.f1001d00 exp 55555555.55555555 obs ffffffff.ffffffff ... and that repeats over and over, ad infinitum. The strange thing is, the same thing happens if I pull the NVRAM chip and boot it up as well. I was thinking that maybe the NVRAM got fried, or that I need a new one, but I'm not sure. I'm also not even sure that that's the problem. Any ideas? -- Adrian Chung (adrian at enfusion-group dot com) http://www.enfusion-group.com/~adrian/ GPG Fingerprint: C620 C8EA 86BA 79CC 384C E7BE A10C 353B 919D 1A17 [gambit.enfusion-group.com] 2:16pm up 35 days, 15:54, 10 users From lists+gtasage@aquezada.com Sat Jun 28 21:16:53 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: gtasage.org-gtasage-members@gtasage.org Received: (qmail 22809 invoked by uid 1004); 28 Jun 2003 17:16:53 -0400 Received: from lists+gtasage@aquezada.com by enfusion-group.com with qmail-scanner; 28 Jun 2003 21:16:53 -0000 Received: from H130.C231.tor.velocet.net (216.138.231.130, claiming to be "aphrodite.aquezada.com") by gambit.enfusion-group.com with SMTP id smtpdy08gY6; Sat, 28 Jun 2003 17:16:46 EDT Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by aphrodite.aquezada.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A906C14FE for ; Sat, 28 Jun 2003 17:14:36 -0400 (EDT) Received: from aphrodite.aquezada.com ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (aphrodite.acf.aquezada.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with LMTP id 77641-06 for ; Sat, 28 Jun 2003 17:14:34 -0400 (EDT) Received: from jupiter.acf.aquezada.com (jupiter.acf.aquezada.com [192.168.5.5]) by aphrodite.aquezada.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id CCC3314DC for ; Sat, 28 Jun 2003 17:14:34 -0400 (EDT) Received: by jupiter.acf.aquezada.com (Postfix, from userid 1001) id B53FF53340; Sat, 28 Jun 2003 17:16:34 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Re: [gtaSAGE-members] Ultra5 won't boot anymore. From: "Julian C. Dunn" To: gtasage-members@gtasage.org In-Reply-To: <20030628181904.GY18146@enfusion-group.com> References: <20030628181904.GY18146@enfusion-group.com> Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Organization: Aquezada Productions Message-Id: <1056834994.1870.12.camel@jupiter.acf.aquezada.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Ximian Evolution 1.4.0 X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at aquezada.com Sender: gtasage-members-admin@gtasage.org Errors-To: gtasage-members-admin@gtasage.org X-BeenThere: gtasage-members@gtasage.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: aligning system and network administrators in the greater Toronto area. List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sat Jun 28 17:17:01 2003 X-Original-Date: 28 Jun 2003 17:16:34 -0400 On Sat, 2003-06-28 at 14:19, Adrian Chung wrote: > Being SPARC illiterate, I'm hoping that someone else might be able to > point me in the right direction. Just before you declare the NVRAM dead, try to "reset-factory-defaults" (or whatever the command is -- I don't have my U10 powered on right now). However, from the error messages it looks like the chip is fried. I presume that out of the output > MESSAGE=NVRAM at U1402 is not present/good > addr ffffffff.f1001db0 > exp 0000 > obs ffff "exp" == expected, "obs" == observed. As you probably well know, when the NVRAM is toast the host ID and ethernet address get set to all ones, so this would suggest to me that it is indeed the case. > The strange thing is, the same thing happens if I pull the NVRAM chip > and boot it up as well. Again, it would suggest that the NVRAM is doing no use being in there. - Julian -- [ Julian C. Dunn * ] [ WWW: http://www.aquezada.com/staff/julian/ * PGP: 0xFDC205B9 ] [ "sometimes you win, sometimes you lose / and most times ] [ you choose between the two" - carole king, "sweet seasons" ] From adrian@enfusion-group.com Sun Jun 29 03:31:40 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: gtasage.org-gtasage-members@gtasage.org Received: (qmail 32375 invoked by uid 500); 28 Jun 2003 23:31:40 -0400 From: Adrian Chung To: gtasage-members@gtasage.org Subject: Re: [gtaSAGE-members] Ultra5 won't boot anymore. Message-ID: <20030629033140.GZ18146@enfusion-group.com> Mail-Followup-To: gtasage-members@gtasage.org References: <20030628181904.GY18146@enfusion-group.com> <1056834994.1870.12.camel@jupiter.acf.aquezada.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <1056834994.1870.12.camel@jupiter.acf.aquezada.com> User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.1i X-Operating-System: Linux 2.4.20-13.7smp i686 Organization: Enfusion Group Sender: gtasage-members-admin@gtasage.org Errors-To: gtasage-members-admin@gtasage.org X-BeenThere: gtasage-members@gtasage.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: aligning system and network administrators in the greater Toronto area. List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sat Jun 28 23:32:00 2003 X-Original-Date: Sat, 28 Jun 2003 23:31:40 -0400 On Sat, Jun 28, 2003 at 05:16:34PM -0400, Julian C. Dunn wrote: > On Sat, 2003-06-28 at 14:19, Adrian Chung wrote: > > Being SPARC illiterate, I'm hoping that someone else might be able to > > point me in the right direction. > > Just before you declare the NVRAM dead, try to "reset-factory-defaults" > (or whatever the command is -- I don't have my U10 powered on right > now). However, from the error messages it looks like the chip is fried. [...] I suspected as much, but figured I'd attempt to confirm before trying to track down a new NVRAM chip for it. Anyone know where I could find a replacement, either locally or on the 'net? I hear they should be roughly ~20USD or so. -- Adrian Chung (adrian at enfusion-group dot com) http://www.enfusion-group.com/~adrian/ GPG Fingerprint: C620 C8EA 86BA 79CC 384C E7BE A10C 353B 919D 1A17 [gambit.enfusion-group.com] up 36 days, 1:07, 10 users From lists+gtasage@aquezada.com Sun Jun 29 15:43:02 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: gtasage.org-gtasage-members@gtasage.org Received: (qmail 25978 invoked by uid 1004); 29 Jun 2003 11:43:02 -0400 Received: from lists+gtasage@aquezada.com by enfusion-group.com with qmail-scanner; 29 Jun 2003 15:43:02 -0000 Received: from H130.C231.tor.velocet.net (216.138.231.130, claiming to be "aphrodite.aquezada.com") by gambit.enfusion-group.com with SMTP id smtpdxQ4j6U; Sun, 29 Jun 2003 11:42:52 EDT Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by aphrodite.aquezada.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6374C151C for ; Sun, 29 Jun 2003 11:41:29 -0400 (EDT) Received: from aphrodite.aquezada.com ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (aphrodite.acf.aquezada.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with LMTP id 80745-01 for ; Sun, 29 Jun 2003 11:41:27 -0400 (EDT) Received: from jupiter.acf.aquezada.com (jupiter.acf.aquezada.com [192.168.5.5]) by aphrodite.aquezada.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 92A07936 for ; Sun, 29 Jun 2003 11:41:27 -0400 (EDT) Received: by jupiter.acf.aquezada.com (Postfix, from userid 1001) id 3A24D53340; Sun, 29 Jun 2003 11:42:40 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Re: [gtaSAGE-members] Ultra5 won't boot anymore. From: "Julian C. Dunn" To: gtasage-members@gtasage.org In-Reply-To: <20030629033140.GZ18146@enfusion-group.com> References: <20030628181904.GY18146@enfusion-group.com> <1056834994.1870.12.camel@jupiter.acf.aquezada.com> <20030629033140.GZ18146@enfusion-group.com> Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Organization: Aquezada Productions Message-Id: <1056901359.1792.22.camel@jupiter.acf.aquezada.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Ximian Evolution 1.4.0 X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at aquezada.com Sender: gtasage-members-admin@gtasage.org Errors-To: gtasage-members-admin@gtasage.org X-BeenThere: gtasage-members@gtasage.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: aligning system and network administrators in the greater Toronto area. List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sun Jun 29 11:44:03 2003 X-Original-Date: 29 Jun 2003 11:42:40 -0400 On Sat, 2003-06-28 at 23:31, Adrian Chung wrote: > Anyone know where I could find a replacement, either locally or on the > 'net? I hear they should be roughly ~20USD or so. I ordered one from Pioneer Standard Electronics last time: The chip is cheap; the shipping is the bulk of the cost. I did ask locally at a few electronics places and they had no idea what I was talking about. - Julian -- [ Julian C. Dunn * ] [ WWW: http://www.aquezada.com/staff/julian/ * PGP: 0xFDC205B9 ] [ "sometimes you win, sometimes you lose / and most times ] [ you choose between the two" - carole king, "sweet seasons" ] From adrian@enfusion-group.com Sun Jun 29 16:21:00 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: gtasage.org-gtasage-members@gtasage.org Received: (qmail 27086 invoked by uid 500); 29 Jun 2003 12:21:00 -0400 From: Adrian Chung To: gtasage-members@gtasage.org Subject: Re: [gtaSAGE-members] Ultra5 won't boot anymore. Message-ID: <20030629162059.GA18146@enfusion-group.com> Mail-Followup-To: gtasage-members@gtasage.org References: <20030628181904.GY18146@enfusion-group.com> <1056834994.1870.12.camel@jupiter.acf.aquezada.com> <20030629033140.GZ18146@enfusion-group.com> <1056901359.1792.22.camel@jupiter.acf.aquezada.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <1056901359.1792.22.camel@jupiter.acf.aquezada.com> User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.1i X-Operating-System: Linux 2.4.20-13.7smp i686 Organization: Enfusion Group Sender: gtasage-members-admin@gtasage.org Errors-To: gtasage-members-admin@gtasage.org X-BeenThere: gtasage-members@gtasage.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: aligning system and network administrators in the greater Toronto area. List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sun Jun 29 12:22:00 2003 X-Original-Date: Sun, 29 Jun 2003 12:21:00 -0400 On Sun, Jun 29, 2003 at 11:42:40AM -0400, Julian C. Dunn wrote: > On Sat, 2003-06-28 at 23:31, Adrian Chung wrote: > > > Anyone know where I could find a replacement, either locally or on the > > 'net? I hear they should be roughly ~20USD or so. > > I ordered one from Pioneer Standard Electronics last time: > The chip is cheap; the shipping is the bulk > of the cost. I did ask locally at a few electronics places and they > had no idea what I was talking about. Thanks, I'll contact them and see if I can arrange to get a new one. I'm unsure of how much work is going to be required once I get the new chip, I'm assuming that it'll be blank, and I'll have to reprogram it somehow? -- Adrian Chung (adrian at enfusion-group dot com) http://www.enfusion-group.com/~adrian/ GPG Fingerprint: C620 C8EA 86BA 79CC 384C E7BE A10C 353B 919D 1A17 [gambit.enfusion-group.com] up 36 days, 13:57, 10 users From lists+gtasage@aquezada.com Sun Jun 29 17:35:29 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: gtasage.org-gtasage-members@gtasage.org Received: (qmail 29059 invoked by uid 1004); 29 Jun 2003 13:35:28 -0400 Received: from lists+gtasage@aquezada.com by enfusion-group.com with qmail-scanner; 29 Jun 2003 17:35:28 -0000 Received: from H130.C231.tor.velocet.net (216.138.231.130, claiming to be "aphrodite.aquezada.com") by gambit.enfusion-group.com with SMTP id smtpdEAmzDZ; Sun, 29 Jun 2003 13:35:20 EDT Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by aphrodite.aquezada.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id EFD801529 for ; Sun, 29 Jun 2003 13:29:27 -0400 (EDT) Received: from aphrodite.aquezada.com ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (aphrodite.acf.aquezada.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with LMTP id 81015-01 for ; Sun, 29 Jun 2003 13:29:26 -0400 (EDT) Received: from jupiter.acf.aquezada.com (jupiter.acf.aquezada.com [192.168.5.5]) by aphrodite.aquezada.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0A3511520 for ; Sun, 29 Jun 2003 13:29:26 -0400 (EDT) Received: by jupiter.acf.aquezada.com (Postfix, from userid 1001) id 4A7F353340; Sun, 29 Jun 2003 13:35:08 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Re: [gtaSAGE-members] Ultra5 won't boot anymore. From: "Julian C. Dunn" To: gtasage-members@gtasage.org In-Reply-To: <20030629162059.GA18146@enfusion-group.com> References: <20030628181904.GY18146@enfusion-group.com> <1056834994.1870.12.camel@jupiter.acf.aquezada.com> <20030629033140.GZ18146@enfusion-group.com> <1056901359.1792.22.camel@jupiter.acf.aquezada.com> <20030629162059.GA18146@enfusion-group.com> Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Organization: Aquezada Productions Message-Id: <1056908107.1870.30.camel@jupiter.acf.aquezada.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Ximian Evolution 1.4.0 X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at aquezada.com Sender: gtasage-members-admin@gtasage.org Errors-To: gtasage-members-admin@gtasage.org X-BeenThere: gtasage-members@gtasage.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: aligning system and network administrators in the greater Toronto area. List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sun Jun 29 13:36:00 2003 X-Original-Date: 29 Jun 2003 13:35:08 -0400 On Sun, 2003-06-29 at 12:21, Adrian Chung wrote: > I'm unsure of how much work is going to be required once I get the new > chip, I'm assuming that it'll be blank, and I'll have to reprogram it > somehow? No, you don't need to reprogram it. The problem right now is that it appears that your Sun is unable to save or read the contents of the NVRAM chip. Usually this is due to the on-chip clock battery being dead, but in your case it appears that it's due to the chip being fried or corrupted in some way. Since the chip doesn't actually contain any logic (being NVRAM == Non-Volatile RAM) it doesn't need any programming. All you need is a flathead screwdriver to pop the existing chip out of its socket on the Sun's motherboard and to put the new one in. - Julian -- [ Julian C. Dunn * ] [ WWW: http://www.aquezada.com/staff/julian/ * PGP: 0xFDC205B9 ] [ "sometimes you win, sometimes you lose / and most times ] [ you choose between the two" - carole king, "sweet seasons" ] From adrian@enfusion-group.com Sun Jun 29 18:16:04 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: gtasage.org-gtasage-members@gtasage.org Received: (qmail 30287 invoked by uid 500); 29 Jun 2003 14:16:04 -0400 From: Adrian Chung To: gtasage-members@gtasage.org Subject: Re: [gtaSAGE-members] Ultra5 won't boot anymore. Message-ID: <20030629181603.GD18146@enfusion-group.com> Mail-Followup-To: gtasage-members@gtasage.org References: <20030628181904.GY18146@enfusion-group.com> <1056834994.1870.12.camel@jupiter.acf.aquezada.com> <20030629033140.GZ18146@enfusion-group.com> <1056901359.1792.22.camel@jupiter.acf.aquezada.com> <20030629162059.GA18146@enfusion-group.com> <1056908107.1870.30.camel@jupiter.acf.aquezada.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <1056908107.1870.30.camel@jupiter.acf.aquezada.com> User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.1i X-Operating-System: Linux 2.4.20-13.7smp i686 Organization: Enfusion Group Sender: gtasage-members-admin@gtasage.org Errors-To: gtasage-members-admin@gtasage.org X-BeenThere: gtasage-members@gtasage.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: aligning system and network administrators in the greater Toronto area. List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sun Jun 29 14:17:00 2003 X-Original-Date: Sun, 29 Jun 2003 14:16:04 -0400 On Sun, Jun 29, 2003 at 01:35:08PM -0400, Julian C. Dunn wrote: > On Sun, 2003-06-29 at 12:21, Adrian Chung wrote: > > > I'm unsure of how much work is going to be required once I get the new > > chip, I'm assuming that it'll be blank, and I'll have to reprogram it > > somehow? > > No, you don't need to reprogram it. The problem right now is that it > appears that your Sun is unable to save or read the contents of the > NVRAM chip. Usually this is due to the on-chip clock battery being dead, > but in your case it appears that it's due to the chip being fried or > corrupted in some way. Since the chip doesn't actually contain any logic > (being NVRAM == Non-Volatile RAM) it doesn't need any programming. All > you need is a flathead screwdriver to pop the existing chip out of its > socket on the Sun's motherboard and to put the new one in. Right, no, I get that. What I meant by "reprogram" was populate it with a valid configuration again. When I put the new chip in, it's not going to have any configuration at all, so what happens with the host-id, ethernet address, and anything else that was saved in the NVRAM? Or does it just repopulate it with default values? -- Adrian Chung (adrian at enfusion-group dot com) http://www.enfusion-group.com/~adrian/ GPG Fingerprint: C620 C8EA 86BA 79CC 384C E7BE A10C 353B 919D 1A17 [gambit.enfusion-group.com] 2:14pm up 36 days, 15:51, 10 users From lists+gtasage@aquezada.com Sun Jun 29 18:55:34 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: gtasage.org-gtasage-members@gtasage.org Received: (qmail 31449 invoked by uid 1004); 29 Jun 2003 14:55:34 -0400 Received: from lists+gtasage@aquezada.com by enfusion-group.com with qmail-scanner; 29 Jun 2003 18:55:34 -0000 Received: from H130.C231.tor.velocet.net (216.138.231.130, claiming to be "aphrodite.aquezada.com") by gambit.enfusion-group.com with SMTP id smtpd0Uopqa; Sun, 29 Jun 2003 14:55:32 EDT Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by aphrodite.aquezada.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5B0311529 for ; Sun, 29 Jun 2003 14:51:37 -0400 (EDT) Received: from aphrodite.aquezada.com ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (aphrodite.acf.aquezada.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with LMTP id 80886-08 for ; Sun, 29 Jun 2003 14:51:35 -0400 (EDT) Received: from jupiter.acf.aquezada.com (jupiter.acf.aquezada.com [192.168.5.5]) by aphrodite.aquezada.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9100A1520 for ; Sun, 29 Jun 2003 14:51:35 -0400 (EDT) Received: by jupiter.acf.aquezada.com (Postfix, from userid 1001) id 82DDA53340; Sun, 29 Jun 2003 14:55:20 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Re: [gtaSAGE-members] Ultra5 won't boot anymore. From: "Julian C. Dunn" To: gtasage-members@gtasage.org In-Reply-To: <20030629181603.GD18146@enfusion-group.com> References: <20030628181904.GY18146@enfusion-group.com> <1056834994.1870.12.camel@jupiter.acf.aquezada.com> <20030629033140.GZ18146@enfusion-group.com> <1056901359.1792.22.camel@jupiter.acf.aquezada.com> <20030629162059.GA18146@enfusion-group.com> <105690 <20030629181603.GD18146@enfusion-group.com> Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Organization: Aquezada Productions Message-Id: <1056912920.1870.33.camel@jupiter.acf.aquezada.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Ximian Evolution 1.4.0 X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at aquezada.com Sender: gtasage-members-admin@gtasage.org Errors-To: gtasage-members-admin@gtasage.org X-BeenThere: gtasage-members@gtasage.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: aligning system and network administrators in the greater Toronto area. List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sun Jun 29 14:56:00 2003 X-Original-Date: 29 Jun 2003 14:55:20 -0400 On Sun, 2003-06-29 at 14:16, Adrian Chung wrote: > Right, no, I get that. What I meant by "reprogram" was populate it > with a valid configuration again. > > When I put the new chip in, it's not going to have any configuration > at all, so what happens with the host-id, ethernet address, and > anything else that was saved in the NVRAM? Or does it just repopulate > it with default values? It just gets populated with default values. i.e. the behaviour that you saw when you pulled the chip out and booted the system will be the behaviour you should see immediately after installation of the new chip. - Julian -- [ Julian C. Dunn * ] [ WWW: http://www.aquezada.com/staff/julian/ * PGP: 0xFDC205B9 ] [ "sometimes you win, sometimes you lose / and most times ] [ you choose between the two" - carole king, "sweet seasons" ] From adrian@enfusion-group.com Tue Jul 08 14:46:49 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: gtasage.org-gtasage-members@gtasage.org Received: (qmail 16245 invoked by uid 500); 8 Jul 2003 10:46:49 -0400 From: Adrian Chung To: gtaSAGE-members Message-ID: <20030708144648.GK8724@enfusion-group.com> Mail-Followup-To: gtaSAGE-members Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.1i X-Operating-System: Linux 2.4.20-13.7smp i686 Organization: Enfusion Group Subject: [gtaSAGE-members] Ultra 5 NVRAM issues -- followup. Sender: gtasage-members-admin@gtasage.org Errors-To: gtasage-members-admin@gtasage.org X-BeenThere: gtasage-members@gtasage.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: aligning system and network administrators in the greater Toronto area. List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue Jul 8 10:47:01 2003 X-Original-Date: Tue, 8 Jul 2003 10:46:49 -0400 So I received a new NVRAM, and had to actually pop it in while the server was attempting to POST in order to get the server to reset properly. Now, it at least boots to the OpenBoot prompt, and as expected shows 'ff' for hostid, ethernet address, date, etc. I've followed the SUN NVRAM FAQ, and tried everything in there, no matter what I do, the NVRAM won't reprogram. -- Adrian Chung (adrian at enfusion-group dot com) http://www.enfusion-group.com/~adrian/ GPG Fingerprint: C620 C8EA 86BA 79CC 384C E7BE A10C 353B 919D 1A17 [gambit.enfusion-group.com] up 45 days, 12:17, 10 users From drkangel@restricted.net Tue Jul 08 14:53:38 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: gtasage.org-gtasage-members@gtasage.org Received: (qmail 16609 invoked by uid 1004); 8 Jul 2003 10:53:38 -0400 Received: from drkangel@restricted.net by enfusion-group.com with qmail-scanner; 08 Jul 2003 14:53:38 -0000 Received: from restricted.net (216.126.94.77, claiming to be "mail.restricted.net") by gambit.enfusion-group.com with SMTP id smtpdbAr9ls; Tue, 08 Jul 2003 10:53:30 EDT Received: from drkangel (helo=localhost) by mail.restricted.net with local-esmtp (Exim 3.36 #2) id 19ZtoA-0005kS-00 for gtasage-members@gtasage.org; Tue, 08 Jul 2003 10:51:06 -0400 From: "Marco P. Rodrigues" X-X-Sender: drkangel@nemesis.restricted.net Reply-To: "Marco P. Rodrigues" To: gtasage-members@gtasage.org Subject: Re: [gtaSAGE-members] Ultra 5 NVRAM issues -- followup. In-Reply-To: <20030708144648.GK8724@enfusion-group.com> Message-ID: References: <20030708144648.GK8724@enfusion-group.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: gtasage-members-admin@gtasage.org Errors-To: gtasage-members-admin@gtasage.org X-BeenThere: gtasage-members@gtasage.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: aligning system and network administrators in the greater Toronto area. List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue Jul 8 10:54:00 2003 X-Original-Date: Tue, 8 Jul 2003 10:51:06 -0400 (EDT) .:I've followed the SUN NVRAM FAQ, and tried everything in there, no .:matter what I do, the NVRAM won't reprogram. .: BHAHAHAHAH. Fucking Tool. From tmh@whitefang.com Tue Jul 08 14:58:58 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: gtasage.org-gtasage-members@gtasage.org Received: (qmail 16903 invoked by uid 1004); 8 Jul 2003 10:58:58 -0400 Received: from tmh@whitefang.com by enfusion-group.com with qmail-scanner; 08 Jul 2003 14:58:58 -0000 Received: from helena.whitefang.com (216.254.175.50) by gambit.enfusion-group.com with SMTP id smtpdNLcJWO; Tue, 08 Jul 2003 10:58:57 EDT Received: (qmail 91989 invoked from network); 8 Jul 2003 14:59:16 -0000 Received: from helena.whitefang.com (216.254.175.50) by 0 with SMTP; 8 Jul 2003 14:59:16 -0000 From: Thamer Al-Harbash X-X-Sender: shadows@helena.whitefang.com To: gtaSAGE-members Subject: Re: [gtaSAGE-members] Ultra 5 NVRAM issues -- followup. In-Reply-To: <20030708144648.GK8724@enfusion-group.com> Message-ID: References: <20030708144648.GK8724@enfusion-group.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: gtasage-members-admin@gtasage.org Errors-To: gtasage-members-admin@gtasage.org X-BeenThere: gtasage-members@gtasage.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: aligning system and network administrators in the greater Toronto area. List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue Jul 8 10:59:01 2003 X-Original-Date: Tue, 8 Jul 2003 10:59:16 -0400 (EDT) On Tue, 8 Jul 2003, Adrian Chung wrote: > So I received a new NVRAM, and had to actually pop it in while the > server was attempting to POST in order to get the server to reset > properly. > > Now, it at least boots to the OpenBoot prompt, and as expected shows > 'ff' for hostid, ethernet address, date, etc. > > I've followed the SUN NVRAM FAQ, and tried everything in there, no > matter what I do, the NVRAM won't reprogram. > Is this an ultra 5? They're cheap on ebay last I checked. http://cgi.ebay.ca/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3033929321&category=20328 -- Thamer Al-Harbash From tmh@whitefang.com Tue Jul 08 15:02:28 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: gtasage.org-gtasage-members@gtasage.org Received: (qmail 17150 invoked by uid 1004); 8 Jul 2003 11:02:28 -0400 Received: from tmh@whitefang.com by enfusion-group.com with qmail-scanner; 08 Jul 2003 15:02:28 -0000 Received: from helena.whitefang.com (216.254.175.50) by gambit.enfusion-group.com with SMTP id smtpdWUFACI; Tue, 08 Jul 2003 11:02:19 EDT Received: (qmail 92029 invoked from network); 8 Jul 2003 15:02:38 -0000 Received: from helena.whitefang.com (216.254.175.50) by 0 with SMTP; 8 Jul 2003 15:02:38 -0000 From: Thamer Al-Harbash X-X-Sender: shadows@helena.whitefang.com To: gtasage-members@gtasage.org Subject: Re: [gtaSAGE-members] Ultra 5 NVRAM issues -- followup. In-Reply-To: Message-ID: References: <20030708144648.GK8724@enfusion-group.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: gtasage-members-admin@gtasage.org Errors-To: gtasage-members-admin@gtasage.org X-BeenThere: gtasage-members@gtasage.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: aligning system and network administrators in the greater Toronto area. List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue Jul 8 11:03:01 2003 X-Original-Date: Tue, 8 Jul 2003 11:02:38 -0400 (EDT) On Tue, 8 Jul 2003, Marco P. Rodrigues wrote: > .:I've followed the SUN NVRAM FAQ, and tried everything in there, no > .:matter what I do, the NVRAM won't reprogram. > .: > > BHAHAHAHAH. > > Fucking Tool. I thought we were only allowed to smoke crack and post on TLUG? When did the rules change? Why doesn't anyone inform me. -- Thamer Al-Harbash From jdunn@aquezada.com Tue Jul 08 15:16:39 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: gtasage.org-gtasage-members@gtasage.org Received: (qmail 17828 invoked by uid 1004); 8 Jul 2003 11:16:39 -0400 Received: from jdunn@aquezada.com by enfusion-group.com with qmail-scanner; 08 Jul 2003 15:16:39 -0000 Received: from queen.torfree.net (199.71.188.22, claiming to be "windermere.tfnet.ca") by gambit.enfusion-group.com with SMTP id smtpd11wKCl; Tue, 08 Jul 2003 11:16:30 EDT Received: from aphrodite.aquezada.com (H130.C231.tor.velocet.net [216.138.231.130]) by windermere.tfnet.ca (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3BB057AB27C; Tue, 8 Jul 2003 11:16:29 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by aphrodite.aquezada.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5DF771717; Tue, 8 Jul 2003 11:14:23 -0400 (EDT) Received: from aphrodite.aquezada.com ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (aphrodite.acf.aquezada.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with LMTP id 99369-07; Tue, 8 Jul 2003 11:14:21 -0400 (EDT) Received: by aphrodite.aquezada.com (Postfix, from userid 1001) id 917A91714; Tue, 8 Jul 2003 11:14:21 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by aphrodite.aquezada.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8B1583D6; Tue, 8 Jul 2003 11:14:21 -0400 (EDT) From: "Julian C. Dunn" To: Adrian Chung Cc: gtaSAGE-members Subject: Re: [gtaSAGE-members] Ultra 5 NVRAM issues -- followup. In-Reply-To: <20030708144648.GK8724@enfusion-group.com> Message-ID: <20030708111346.N99192@aphrodite.acf.aquezada.com> References: <20030708144648.GK8724@enfusion-group.com> Organization: Aquezada Productions MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at aquezada.com Sender: gtasage-members-admin@gtasage.org Errors-To: gtasage-members-admin@gtasage.org X-BeenThere: gtasage-members@gtasage.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: aligning system and network administrators in the greater Toronto area. List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue Jul 8 11:17:01 2003 X-Original-Date: Tue, 8 Jul 2003 11:14:21 -0400 (EDT) On Tue, 8 Jul 2003, Adrian Chung wrote: > So I received a new NVRAM, and had to actually pop it in while the > server was attempting to POST in order to get the server to reset > properly. > > Now, it at least boots to the OpenBoot prompt, and as expected shows > 'ff' for hostid, ethernet address, date, etc. > > I've followed the SUN NVRAM FAQ, and tried everything in there, no > matter what I do, the NVRAM won't reprogram. Ok, so it looks like (from your message to SAGE-members) that the workstation really is toasted. Did you have it plugged into a surge protector per chance? - Julian [ Julian C. Dunn * ] [ WWW: http://www.aquezada.com/staff/julian/ * PGP: 0xFDC205B9 ] [ "sometimes you win, sometimes you lose / and most times ] [ you choose between the two" - carole king, "sweet seasons" ] From adrian@enfusion-group.com Tue Jul 08 15:19:50 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: gtasage.org-gtasage-members@gtasage.org Received: (qmail 18060 invoked by uid 500); 8 Jul 2003 11:19:50 -0400 From: Adrian Chung To: "Julian C. Dunn" Cc: gtaSAGE-members Subject: Re: [gtaSAGE-members] Ultra 5 NVRAM issues -- followup. Message-ID: <20030708151949.GM8724@enfusion-group.com> Mail-Followup-To: "Julian C. Dunn" , gtaSAGE-members References: <20030708144648.GK8724@enfusion-group.com> <20030708111346.N99192@aphrodite.acf.aquezada.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20030708111346.N99192@aphrodite.acf.aquezada.com> User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.1i X-Operating-System: Linux 2.4.20-13.7smp i686 Organization: Enfusion Group Sender: gtasage-members-admin@gtasage.org Errors-To: gtasage-members-admin@gtasage.org X-BeenThere: gtasage-members@gtasage.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: aligning system and network administrators in the greater Toronto area. List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue Jul 8 11:20:01 2003 X-Original-Date: Tue, 8 Jul 2003 11:19:50 -0400 On Tue, Jul 08, 2003 at 11:14:21AM -0400, Julian C. Dunn wrote: > On Tue, 8 Jul 2003, Adrian Chung wrote: > > > So I received a new NVRAM, and had to actually pop it in while the > > server was attempting to POST in order to get the server to reset > > properly. > > > > Now, it at least boots to the OpenBoot prompt, and as expected shows > > 'ff' for hostid, ethernet address, date, etc. > > > > I've followed the SUN NVRAM FAQ, and tried everything in there, no > > matter what I do, the NVRAM won't reprogram. > > Ok, so it looks like (from your message to SAGE-members) that the > workstation really is toasted. Did you have it plugged into a surge > protector per chance? It is plugged into a surge protector, but not plugged into a UPS. There are a few other machines on the same surge protector too, and they've managed to survive... -- Adrian Chung (adrian at enfusion-group dot com) http://www.enfusion-group.com/~adrian/ GPG Fingerprint: C620 C8EA 86BA 79CC 384C E7BE A10C 353B 919D 1A17 [gambit.enfusion-group.com] up 45 days, 12:56, 10 users From jsellens@generalconcepts.com Thu Sep 25 15:42:07 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: gtasage.org-gtasage-members@gtasage.org Received: (qmail 21060 invoked by uid 1004); 25 Sep 2003 11:42:07 -0400 Received: from jsellens@generalconcepts.com by enfusion-group.com with qmail-scanner; 25 Sep 2003 15:42:07 -0000 Received: from CPE000024c0194d-CM00803785ed49.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com (24.192.1.184, claiming to be "localhost.generalconcepts.com") by enfusion-group.com with SMTP id smtpdX0Js2x; Thu, 25 Sep 2003 11:42:03 EDT Received: from localhost.generalconcepts.com (localhost.generalconcepts.com [127.0.0.1]) by localhost.generalconcepts.com (8.12.8p2/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h8PFg2Ed008084 for ; Thu, 25 Sep 2003 11:42:02 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from jsellens@localhost.generalconcepts.com) Received: (from jsellens@localhost) by localhost.generalconcepts.com (8.12.8p2/8.12.8/Submit) id h8PFg1JA008083 for gtasage-members@gtasage.org; Thu, 25 Sep 2003 11:42:01 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from jsellens) Message-Id: <200309251542.h8PFg1JA008083@localhost.generalconcepts.com> From: John Sellens To: gtasage-members@gtasage.org Subject: [gtaSAGE-members] the LISA conference is coming up soon .... Sender: gtasage-members-admin@gtasage.org Errors-To: gtasage-members-admin@gtasage.org X-BeenThere: gtasage-members@gtasage.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: aligning system and network administrators in the greater Toronto area. List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu Sep 25 11:43:01 2003 X-Original-Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2003 11:42:01 -0400 (EDT) Most of you likely already know this but the LISA '03 System Administration conference is coming up at the end of October (Oct 26-31) in San Diego, and it's the best place to be for a system administrator. I'm slightly biased, but the program this year is good, and so is the venue. Tell your boss that it's the best possible thing you can do with your time :-) Unfortunately, the "student stipend" application deadline has passed. All the details are at (of course): http://www.usenix.org/events/lisa03/ I'd be happy to answer any LISA (or SAGE) related questions you might have. Cheers! John jsellens@generalconcepts.com / jsellens@sage.org From duane@dbsconsulting.ca Sat Sep 27 22:58:27 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: gtasage.org-gtasage-members@gtasage.org Received: (qmail 26988 invoked by uid 1004); 27 Sep 2003 18:58:27 -0400 Received: from duane@dbsconsulting.ca by enfusion-group.com with qmail-scanner; 27 Sep 2003 22:58:27 -0000 Received: from CPE000795472f28-CM0010951569b2.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com (24.153.43.141, claiming to be "skippy.duanebedeau.com") by enfusion-group.com with SMTP id smtpdJ0iihr; Sat, 27 Sep 2003 18:58:17 EDT Received: from skippy.duanebedeau.com (IDENT:1000@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by skippy.duanebedeau.com (8.12.4/8.12.4) with ESMTP id h8RMxuO2020256 for ; Sat, 27 Sep 2003 18:59:57 -0400 Received: (from duane@localhost) by skippy.duanebedeau.com (8.12.4/8.12.4/Submit) id h8RMxuiH020255; Sat, 27 Sep 2003 18:59:56 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: skippy.duanebedeau.com: duane set sender to duane@dbsconsulting.ca using -f From: Duane Bedeau To: gtasage-members@gtasage.org Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Ximian Evolution 1.0.7 Message-Id: <1064703596.659.122.camel@skippy> Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: [gtaSAGE-members] email address in archive Sender: gtasage-members-admin@gtasage.org Errors-To: gtasage-members-admin@gtasage.org X-BeenThere: gtasage-members@gtasage.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: aligning system and network administrators in the greater Toronto area. List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sat Sep 27 18:59:01 2003 X-Original-Date: 27 Sep 2003 18:59:56 -0400 I noticed something today while doing a search... The email addresses are not munged when they get processed in what I'm assuming is pipermail... For example I'm subscribed to two other lists (TLUG and LVS-users) and when I view the archives online for those two, my (and everyone else's) address shows up with the @ symbol replaced with "_at_" which is kinda cool and prevents automatic harvesting. How come that doesn't happen here with this group? I know it's easy enough for a harvester to do a regex with s/_at_/\@/g and get the same address but still... -- Duane Bedeau DBS Consulting Services http://www.dbsconsulting.ca Email:dbsconsulting.ca From tmh@whitefang.com Sun Sep 28 05:12:51 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: gtasage.org-gtasage-members@gtasage.org Received: (qmail 5542 invoked by uid 1004); 28 Sep 2003 01:12:51 -0400 Received: from tmh@whitefang.com by enfusion-group.com with qmail-scanner; 28 Sep 2003 05:12:51 -0000 Received: from helena.whitefang.com (216.254.175.50) by enfusion-group.com with SMTP id smtpdfMTMNI; Sun, 28 Sep 2003 01:12:45 EDT Received: (qmail 61636 invoked from network); 28 Sep 2003 05:12:59 -0000 Received: from helena.whitefang.com (216.254.175.50) by 0 with SMTP; 28 Sep 2003 05:12:59 -0000 From: Thamer Al-Harbash X-X-Sender: shadows@helena.whitefang.com To: gtasage-members@gtasage.org Subject: Re: [gtaSAGE-members] email address in archive In-Reply-To: <1064703596.659.122.camel@skippy> Message-ID: References: <1064703596.659.122.camel@skippy> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: gtasage-members-admin@gtasage.org Errors-To: gtasage-members-admin@gtasage.org X-BeenThere: gtasage-members@gtasage.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: aligning system and network administrators in the greater Toronto area. List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sun Sep 28 01:13:01 2003 X-Original-Date: Sun, 28 Sep 2003 01:12:59 -0400 (EDT) On Sat, 27 Sep 2003, Duane Bedeau wrote: [snip address munging request] > I know it's easy enough for a harvester to do a regex with s/_at_/\@/g > and get the same address but still... This will probably have no effect at all on the list archive maintainer, but I thought I'd voice my opinion anyway. Munging email addresses is wrong on both technical and ethical grounds. When you munge an e-mail address you break an uncountable number of specifications and good practices. Ethically speaking, it shifts the blame from the spammer to the spam victim ("you should be more careful with your e-mail address and this wouldn't happen!"). You're essentially murdering e-mail and regenerating it into some undead incarnation of an instant messaging identifier. Don't hide your e-mail address like its some dirty little secret you only share with people you know, because by doing this you turn your back on legitimate uses of e-mail as a public Internet identifier. Consider bug submission addresses for free software projects, postmaster@somedomain, and other e-mail addresses which we cannot afford to munge and hide. Instead of munging consider using a filter to put away all the spam you receive in a folder and later forward this folder to those who have the time to track down spammers. Consider getting involved with your local government to pass laws to make it a criminal offense to spam. Consider saving your technology and going after those who are taking it away from you. Don't pervert your technology. I get 1,200+ virii emails a day when a new windows virus comes out. I get 500+ spams a day. I post to Usenet and google shows a healthy number of hits when I enter either one of my two e-mail addresses. Anyway, I don't expect this to convince everyone but it may make for food for thought. -- Thamer Al-Harbash GPG Key fingerprint: D7F3 1E3B F329 8DD5 FAE3 03B1 A663 E359 D686 AA1F "haha this is another self-referential joke" From adrian@enfusion-group.com Sun Sep 28 14:17:57 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: gtasage.org-gtasage-members@gtasage.org Received: (qmail 29848 invoked by uid 1004); 28 Sep 2003 10:17:57 -0400 Received: from adrian@enfusion-group.com by enfusion-group.com with qmail-scanner; 28 Sep 2003 14:17:57 -0000 Received: from smtp-auth.enfusion-group.com (216.220.40.201) by enfusion-group.com with SMTP id smtpd9T26Zy; Sun, 28 Sep 2003 10:17:51 EDT Received: from enfusion-group.com (CPE0080c857bec4-CM014320002429.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com [24.102.49.105]) by smtp-auth.enfusion-group.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9140131 for ; Sun, 28 Sep 2003 10:17:50 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 19346 invoked by uid 500); 28 Sep 2003 10:17:50 -0400 From: Adrian Chung To: gtasage-members@gtasage.org Subject: Re: [gtaSAGE-members] email address in archive Message-ID: <20030928141749.GA19321@enfusion-group.com> Mail-Followup-To: gtasage-members@gtasage.org References: <1064703596.659.122.camel@skippy> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <1064703596.659.122.camel@skippy> User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.1i X-Operating-System: Linux 2.4.21 i686 Organization: Enfusion Group Sender: gtasage-members-admin@gtasage.org Errors-To: gtasage-members-admin@gtasage.org X-BeenThere: gtasage-members@gtasage.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: aligning system and network administrators in the greater Toronto area. List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sun Sep 28 10:18:01 2003 X-Original-Date: Sun, 28 Sep 2003 10:17:50 -0400 On Sat, Sep 27, 2003 at 06:59:56PM -0400, Duane Bedeau wrote: > I noticed something today while doing a search... The email addresses > are not munged when they get processed in what I'm assuming is > pipermail... > > For example I'm subscribed to two other lists (TLUG and LVS-users) and > when I view the archives online for those two, my (and everyone else's) > address shows up with the @ symbol replaced with "_at_" which is kinda > cool and prevents automatic harvesting. How come that doesn't happen > here with this group? Most likely because the version of mailman I'm running isn't configured, or can't be (from what I can see) to munge the addresses. I thought I'd had it setup to do that, but obviously it's not. It looks like at least samba, and lvs-users which both exhibit the behaviour you're noticing are running the 2.1.x branch of mailman. One day I'll upgrade to the 2.1.x stream, which looks like it can do this. -- Adrian Chung (adrian at enfusion-group dot com) http://www.enfusion-group.com/~adrian/ GPG Fingerprint: C620 C8EA 86BA 79CC 384C E7BE A10C 353B 919D 1A17 [rogue.genosha.enfusion-group.com] up 17 days, 11:25, 4 users From adrian@enfusion-group.com Sun Sep 28 14:20:37 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: gtasage.org-gtasage-members@gtasage.org Received: (qmail 30037 invoked by uid 1004); 28 Sep 2003 10:20:37 -0400 Received: from adrian@enfusion-group.com by enfusion-group.com with qmail-scanner; 28 Sep 2003 14:20:37 -0000 Received: from smtp-auth.enfusion-group.com (216.220.40.201) by enfusion-group.com with SMTP id smtpdg6hh5x; Sun, 28 Sep 2003 10:20:36 EDT Received: from enfusion-group.com (CPE0080c857bec4-CM014320002429.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com [24.102.49.105]) by smtp-auth.enfusion-group.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id AE98531 for ; Sun, 28 Sep 2003 10:20:35 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 19366 invoked by uid 500); 28 Sep 2003 10:20:35 -0400 From: Adrian Chung To: gtasage-members@gtasage.org Subject: Re: [gtaSAGE-members] the LISA conference is coming up soon .... Message-ID: <20030928142035.GB19321@enfusion-group.com> Mail-Followup-To: gtasage-members@gtasage.org References: <200309251542.h8PFg1JA008083@localhost.generalconcepts.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <200309251542.h8PFg1JA008083@localhost.generalconcepts.com> User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.1i X-Operating-System: Linux 2.4.21 i686 Organization: Enfusion Group Sender: gtasage-members-admin@gtasage.org Errors-To: gtasage-members-admin@gtasage.org X-BeenThere: gtasage-members@gtasage.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: aligning system and network administrators in the greater Toronto area. List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sun Sep 28 10:21:01 2003 X-Original-Date: Sun, 28 Sep 2003 10:20:35 -0400 On Thu, Sep 25, 2003 at 11:42:01AM -0400, John Sellens wrote: > Most of you likely already know this but the LISA '03 System > Administration conference is coming up at the end of October > (Oct 26-31) in San Diego, and it's the best place to be for > a system administrator. I'm slightly biased, but the program > this year is good, and so is the venue. > > Tell your boss that it's the best possible thing you can do > with your time :-) :) I'd love to go, but I'm afraid I won't be convincing my boss to either let me go, or fund the trip. How many people on this list are privileged enough to have their employers support conferences throughout the year (either with time-off, and/or financially)? These days, I find it difficult to believe that it's all that common... -- Adrian Chung (adrian at enfusion-group dot com) http://www.enfusion-group.com/~adrian/ GPG Fingerprint: C620 C8EA 86BA 79CC 384C E7BE A10C 353B 919D 1A17 [rogue.genosha.enfusion-group.com] up 17 days, 11:31, 4 users From lists+gtasage@aquezada.com Sun Sep 28 22:44:48 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: gtasage.org-gtasage-members@gtasage.org Received: (qmail 12783 invoked by uid 1004); 28 Sep 2003 18:44:48 -0400 Received: from lists+gtasage@aquezada.com by enfusion-group.com with qmail-scanner; 28 Sep 2003 22:44:48 -0000 Received: from H130.C231.tor.velocet.net (216.138.231.130, claiming to be "aphrodite.aquezada.com") by enfusion-group.com with SMTP id smtpdwUYZAU; Sun, 28 Sep 2003 18:44:45 EDT Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by aphrodite.aquezada.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 59B3246E for ; Sun, 28 Sep 2003 18:43:00 -0400 (EDT) Received: from aphrodite.aquezada.com ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (aphrodite.acf.aquezada.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with LMTP id 13824-01 for ; Sun, 28 Sep 2003 18:42:59 -0400 (EDT) Received: from jupiter.acf.aquezada.com (jupiter.acf.aquezada.com [192.168.5.5]) by aphrodite.aquezada.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E1EDA3E0 for ; Sun, 28 Sep 2003 18:42:58 -0400 (EDT) Received: by jupiter.acf.aquezada.com (Postfix, from userid 1001) id E6FA653369; Sun, 28 Sep 2003 18:44:42 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Re: [gtaSAGE-members] the LISA conference is coming up soon .... From: "Julian C. Dunn" To: gtasage-members@gtasage.org In-Reply-To: <20030928142035.GB19321@enfusion-group.com> References: <200309251542.h8PFg1JA008083@localhost.generalconcepts.com> <20030928142035.GB19321@enfusion-group.com> Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Organization: Aquezada Productions Message-Id: <1064789082.17223.40.camel@jupiter.acf.aquezada.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Ximian Evolution 1.4.5 X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at aquezada.com Sender: gtasage-members-admin@gtasage.org Errors-To: gtasage-members-admin@gtasage.org X-BeenThere: gtasage-members@gtasage.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: aligning system and network administrators in the greater Toronto area. List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sun Sep 28 18:45:01 2003 X-Original-Date: Sun, 28 Sep 2003 18:44:42 -0400 On Sun, 2003-09-28 at 10:20, Adrian Chung wrote: [regarding LISA] > I'd love to go, but I'm afraid I won't be convincing my boss to either > let me go, or fund the trip. > > How many people on this list are privileged enough to have their > employers support conferences throughout the year (either with > time-off, and/or financially)? These days, I find it difficult to > believe that it's all that common... I agree with you completely. The price of taking time off work, paying for a return ticket to some place in the States, paying for a hotel room for several days, on top of the exorbitant conference fee, is generally untenable for most of us working stiffs. The folks who are most deserving of attendance at LISA are generally the ones who are the least able to attend. I have concluded that in general, technical conferences are set up to benefit those who work for large companies with generous training allowances, or those folks who are self-employed and can afford to write off half of the expense as a tax deduction. Everyone else can forget about going. This is not a phenomenon restricted solely to USENIX, but to most technical societies. Since this is clearly the way things work I am looking forward to starting my own company to be able to deduct all manner of professional expenses. - Julian -- [ Julian C. Dunn * ] [ WWW: http://www.aquezada.com/staff/julian/ * PGP: 0xFDC205B9 ] [ "sometimes you win, sometimes you lose / and most times ] [ you choose between the two" - carole king, "sweet seasons" ] From tmh@whitefang.com Mon Sep 29 01:33:19 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: gtasage.org-gtasage-members@gtasage.org Received: (qmail 18032 invoked by uid 1004); 28 Sep 2003 21:33:19 -0400 Received: from tmh@whitefang.com by enfusion-group.com with qmail-scanner; 29 Sep 2003 01:33:19 -0000 Received: from helena.whitefang.com (216.254.175.50) by enfusion-group.com with SMTP id smtpdVTawTY; Sun, 28 Sep 2003 21:33:14 EDT Received: (qmail 77309 invoked from network); 29 Sep 2003 01:33:30 -0000 Received: from helena.whitefang.com (216.254.175.50) by 0 with SMTP; 29 Sep 2003 01:33:30 -0000 From: Thamer Al-Harbash X-X-Sender: shadows@helena.whitefang.com To: gtasage-members@gtasage.org Subject: Re: [gtaSAGE-members] the LISA conference is coming up soon .... In-Reply-To: <1064789082.17223.40.camel@jupiter.acf.aquezada.com> Message-ID: References: <200309251542.h8PFg1JA008083@localhost.generalconcepts.com> <20030928142035.GB19321@enfusion-group.com> <1064789082.17223.40.camel@jupiter.acf.aquezada.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: gtasage-members-admin@gtasage.org Errors-To: gtasage-members-admin@gtasage.org X-BeenThere: gtasage-members@gtasage.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: aligning system and network administrators in the greater Toronto area. List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sun Sep 28 21:34:01 2003 X-Original-Date: Sun, 28 Sep 2003 21:33:30 -0400 (EDT) On Sun, 28 Sep 2003, Julian C. Dunn wrote: > I have concluded that in general, technical conferences are set up to > benefit those who work for large companies with generous training > allowances, or those folks who are self-employed and can afford to write > off half of the expense as a tax deduction. Everyone else can forget > about going. This is not a phenomenon restricted solely to USENIX, but > to most technical societies. Geezus. Get that chip off your shoulder. People with engineering positions at companies that want to stay cutting edge will attend. Operational people tend not to be sent to these things. No need to whine or claim conferences are for the elite. -- Thamer Al-Harbash GPG Key fingerprint: D7F3 1E3B F329 8DD5 FAE3 03B1 A663 E359 D686 AA1F "haha this is another self-referential joke" From duane@dbsconsulting.ca Mon Sep 29 03:26:46 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: gtasage.org-gtasage-members@gtasage.org Received: (qmail 21807 invoked by uid 1004); 28 Sep 2003 23:26:46 -0400 Received: from duane@dbsconsulting.ca by enfusion-group.com with qmail-scanner; 29 Sep 2003 03:26:46 -0000 Received: from CPE000795472f28-CM0010951569b2.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com (24.153.43.141, claiming to be "skippy.duanebedeau.com") by enfusion-group.com with SMTP id smtpd5VwwxM; Sun, 28 Sep 2003 23:26:36 EDT Received: from skippy.duanebedeau.com (IDENT:1000@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by skippy.duanebedeau.com (8.12.4/8.12.4) with ESMTP id h8T3SMO2022839 for ; Sun, 28 Sep 2003 23:28:22 -0400 Received: (from duane@localhost) by skippy.duanebedeau.com (8.12.4/8.12.4/Submit) id h8T3SMCY022838; Sun, 28 Sep 2003 23:28:22 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: skippy.duanebedeau.com: duane set sender to duane@dbsconsulting.ca using -f Subject: Re: [gtaSAGE-members] email address in archive From: Duane Bedeau To: gtasage In-Reply-To: References: <1064703596.659.122.camel@skippy> Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Ximian Evolution 1.0.7 Message-Id: <1064806102.728.158.camel@skippy> Mime-Version: 1.0 Sender: gtasage-members-admin@gtasage.org Errors-To: gtasage-members-admin@gtasage.org X-BeenThere: gtasage-members@gtasage.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: aligning system and network administrators in the greater Toronto area. List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sun Sep 28 23:27:01 2003 X-Original-Date: 28 Sep 2003 23:28:22 -0400 On Sun, 2003-09-28 at 01:12, Thamer Al-Harbash wrote: > On Sat, 27 Sep 2003, Duane Bedeau wrote: > > [snip address munging request] > > > I know it's easy enough for a harvester to do a regex with s/_at_/\@/g > > and get the same address but still... The above was not an "address munging request" at all. It was more of an address not munging enquiry if you will... Re-read it and you'll see, the question was "how come that doesn't happen?", not "can you please make it happen?"... Anyway > Munging email addresses is wrong on both technical and ethical > grounds. > > When you munge an e-mail address you break an uncountable number > of specifications and good practices. Ethically speaking, it > shifts the blame from the spammer to the spam victim ("you should > be more careful with your e-mail address and this wouldn't > happen!"). You're essentially murdering e-mail and regenerating > it into some undead incarnation of an instant messaging > identifier. I think the point of address munging is NOT to have it as an identifier at all! I do agree however that the onus should fall upon the spammer however. > Don't hide your e-mail address like its some dirty little secret > you only share with people you know, because by doing this you > turn your back on legitimate uses of e-mail as a public Internet > identifier. Consider bug submission addresses for free software > projects, postmaster@somedomain, and other e-mail addresses which > we cannot afford to munge and hide. Hmmmm, well yes, I do only share my email address with people that I know incidentally... much like my cell phone number. I'm not sure how I can equate email address with a public internet indentifier. The only way I can see this working is if you use google or another webbased tool to find out someone's email address... Then yes, clearly you wouldn't get accurate results (assuming the munging done was non-trivial)... But then why not use a directory tool designed to flush out email addresses properly? > Instead of munging consider using a filter to put away all the > spam you receive in a folder and later forward this folder to > those who have the time to track down spammers. Consider getting > involved with your local government to pass laws to make it a > criminal offense to spam. Consider saving your technology and > going after those who are taking it away from you. Don't pervert > your technology. Yes, this is already done. I did notice that the addresses are NOT munged, yet I proceded to post here knowing what would happen. Reason being, I have a decent filter and know the joys of configuring it! Local government and criminal offense? I'm almost certain you mean federal government and judging by the recent closings of several anti-spam sites, going after them is easier said than done unfortunately > I get 1,200+ virii emails a day when a new windows virus comes > out. I get 500+ spams a day. I post to Usenet and google shows a > healthy number of hits when I enter either one of my two e-mail > addresses. You don't think there's a cause -> effect there? > Anyway, I don't expect this to convince everyone but it may make > for food for thought. Indeed it is... -- Duane Bedeau DBS Consulting Services Tel:(416)782-3514 http://www.dbsconsulting.ca Email:duane@dbsconsulting.ca From tmh@whitefang.com Mon Sep 29 03:53:38 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: gtasage.org-gtasage-members@gtasage.org Received: (qmail 22774 invoked by uid 1004); 28 Sep 2003 23:53:38 -0400 Received: from tmh@whitefang.com by enfusion-group.com with qmail-scanner; 29 Sep 2003 03:53:38 -0000 Received: from helena.whitefang.com (216.254.175.50) by enfusion-group.com with SMTP id smtpdLDxipb; Sun, 28 Sep 2003 23:53:32 EDT Received: (qmail 78992 invoked from network); 29 Sep 2003 03:53:47 -0000 Received: from helena.whitefang.com (216.254.175.50) by 0 with SMTP; 29 Sep 2003 03:53:47 -0000 From: Thamer Al-Harbash X-X-Sender: shadows@helena.whitefang.com To: gtasage Subject: Re: [gtaSAGE-members] email address in archive In-Reply-To: <1064806102.728.158.camel@skippy> Message-ID: References: <1064703596.659.122.camel@skippy> <1064806102.728.158.camel@skippy> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: gtasage-members-admin@gtasage.org Errors-To: gtasage-members-admin@gtasage.org X-BeenThere: gtasage-members@gtasage.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: aligning system and network administrators in the greater Toronto area. List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sun Sep 28 23:54:01 2003 X-Original-Date: Sun, 28 Sep 2003 23:53:47 -0400 (EDT) On Sun, 28 Sep 2003, Duane Bedeau wrote: > The above was not an "address munging request" at all. It was more of > an address not munging enquiry if you will... Re-read it and you'll see, > the question was "how come that doesn't happen?", not "can you please > make it happen?"... Anyway Sorry. It suspiciously looked like a request :) > Hmmmm, well yes, I do only share my email address with people that I > know incidentally... much like my cell phone number. I'm not sure how I > can equate email address with a public internet indentifier. The only > way I can see this working is if you use google or another webbased tool > to find out someone's email address... Then yes, clearly you wouldn't > get accurate results (assuming the munging done was non-trivial)... I can appreciate the analogy with the cell phone. You pay for the resources for receiving a communication on a cell phone and e-mail. I still think e-mail is much cheaper though. Especially if the world stops using HTML tags and just plain octets or unicode characters for plain communication. > But then why not use a directory tool designed to flush out email > addresses properly? I was going to say the Internet ought to have a massive LDAP server just for that. Communication would be very nice if I can lookup someone's e-mail address and drop them a note. For example, I read a good book today and have a few corrections for the author. He ought to have an e-mail listed for fan mail -- or he should at least be able to set it up easily if he wants to bear the cost. The Internet went from this massive data network for all types of communication and information sharing to pornography and spam in less than five years or so. I'm dating the birth of the Internet proper around the time Mosiac was released. > Local government and criminal offense? I'm almost certain you mean > federal government and judging by the recent closings of several > anti-spam sites, going after them is easier said than done unfortunately When I said local I meant to whatever country you live in. I forgot this is a regional mailing list. [snip me mentioning the sheer amount of spam I get ] > You don't think there's a cause -> effect there? Sure there is. I've used this e-mail address for a few years, and another one (which is still active) for a decade. I posted on a lot of public forums and never munged. Actually a very very long time ago when Andrew Gierth was revamping the comp.unix.programmer FAQ I sent in several contributions and later mirrored it for a long time. I asked Andrew to withold my e-mail address from the FAQ. He honored that request along with requests from other contributors. He did say that it was the wrong thing to do. A few years later I noted that he was very right. -- Thamer Al-Harbash GPG Key fingerprint: D7F3 1E3B F329 8DD5 FAE3 03B1 A663 E359 D686 AA1F "haha this is another self-referential joke" From robert@timetraveller.org Mon Sep 29 16:19:56 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: gtasage.org-gtasage-members@gtasage.org Received: (qmail 19767 invoked by uid 1004); 29 Sep 2003 12:19:56 -0400 Received: from robert@timetraveller.org by enfusion-group.com with qmail-scanner; 29 Sep 2003 16:19:56 -0000 Received: from blake.timetraveller.org (203.23.43.10) by enfusion-group.com with SMTP id smtpdS6COuu; Mon, 29 Sep 2003 12:19:45 EDT Received: from zen.canint.timetraveller.org (CPE00105ae6b1e1-CM000039aeec61.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com [63.139.6.84]) by blake.timetraveller.org (8.12.3/8.12.3) with ESMTP id h8TGJXIa014267 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=OK); Tue, 30 Sep 2003 02:19:36 +1000 Received: from zen.canint.timetraveller.org (zen.canint.timetraveller.org [192.168.120.1]) by zen.canint.timetraveller.org (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h8TGJHK7012613; Mon, 29 Sep 2003 12:19:17 -0400 From: Robert Brockway X-X-Sender: robert@zen.canint.timetraveller.org To: Adrian Chung cc: gtasage-members@gtasage.org Subject: Re: [gtaSAGE-members] the LISA conference is coming up soon .... In-Reply-To: <20030928142035.GB19321@enfusion-group.com> Message-ID: References: <200309251542.h8PFg1JA008083@localhost.generalconcepts.com> <20030928142035.GB19321@enfusion-group.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: gtasage-members-admin@gtasage.org Errors-To: gtasage-members-admin@gtasage.org X-BeenThere: gtasage-members@gtasage.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: aligning system and network administrators in the greater Toronto area. List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon Sep 29 12:20:01 2003 X-Original-Date: Mon, 29 Sep 2003 12:19:17 -0400 (EDT) On Sun, 28 Sep 2003, Adrian Chung wrote: > How many people on this list are privileged enough to have their > employers support conferences throughout the year (either with > time-off, and/or financially)? These days, I find it difficult to > believe that it's all that common... It's funny, we were just discussing this in a meeting. I'm starting to wonder who all these people turning up to conferences are, because its no one I know :) Do technical people ever get to go or is it mainly management who I suspect would gain the least from attendance? Rob -- Robert Brockway B.Sc. email: robert@timetraveller.org, zzbrock@uqconnect.net Linux counter project ID #16440 (http://counter.li.org) "The earth is but one country and mankind its citizens" -Baha'u'llah From robert@timetraveller.org Mon Sep 29 16:23:06 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: gtasage.org-gtasage-members@gtasage.org Received: (qmail 19959 invoked by uid 1004); 29 Sep 2003 12:23:06 -0400 Received: from robert@timetraveller.org by enfusion-group.com with qmail-scanner; 29 Sep 2003 16:23:06 -0000 Received: from blake.timetraveller.org (203.23.43.10) by enfusion-group.com with SMTP id smtpdFaIbcN; Mon, 29 Sep 2003 12:23:01 EDT Received: from zen.canint.timetraveller.org (CPE00105ae6b1e1-CM000039aeec61.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com [63.139.6.84]) by blake.timetraveller.org (8.12.3/8.12.3) with ESMTP id h8TGMsIa014327 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=OK); Tue, 30 Sep 2003 02:22:57 +1000 Received: from zen.canint.timetraveller.org (zen.canint.timetraveller.org [192.168.120.1]) by zen.canint.timetraveller.org (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h8TGMcK7012650; Mon, 29 Sep 2003 12:22:38 -0400 From: Robert Brockway X-X-Sender: robert@zen.canint.timetraveller.org To: Thamer Al-Harbash cc: gtasage-members@gtasage.org Subject: Re: [gtaSAGE-members] the LISA conference is coming up soon .... In-Reply-To: Message-ID: References: <200309251542.h8PFg1JA008083@localhost.generalconcepts.com> <20030928142035.GB19321@enfusion-group.com> <1064789082.17223.40.camel@jupiter.acf.aquezada.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: gtasage-members-admin@gtasage.org Errors-To: gtasage-members-admin@gtasage.org X-BeenThere: gtasage-members@gtasage.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: aligning system and network administrators in the greater Toronto area. List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon Sep 29 12:24:01 2003 X-Original-Date: Mon, 29 Sep 2003 12:22:38 -0400 (EDT) On Sun, 28 Sep 2003, Thamer Al-Harbash wrote: > People with engineering positions at companies that want to stay > cutting edge will attend. Operational people tend not to be sent > to these things. Hi Thamer. My experiences tell me just the opposite. I think it is precisely the operational people who are _not_ going to the conferences, but I'd love to be proven wrong on this one. Rob -- Robert Brockway B.Sc. email: robert@timetraveller.org, zzbrock@uqconnect.net Linux counter project ID #16440 (http://counter.li.org) "The earth is but one country and mankind its citizens" -Baha'u'llah From robert@timetraveller.org Mon Sep 29 16:26:17 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: gtasage.org-gtasage-members@gtasage.org Received: (qmail 20393 invoked by uid 1004); 29 Sep 2003 12:26:17 -0400 Received: from robert@timetraveller.org by enfusion-group.com with qmail-scanner; 29 Sep 2003 16:26:17 -0000 Received: from blake.timetraveller.org (203.23.43.10) by enfusion-group.com with SMTP id smtpd5LyiJS; Mon, 29 Sep 2003 12:26:05 EDT Received: from zen.canint.timetraveller.org (CPE00105ae6b1e1-CM000039aeec61.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com [63.139.6.84]) by blake.timetraveller.org (8.12.3/8.12.3) with ESMTP id h8TGPwIa014361 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=OK); Tue, 30 Sep 2003 02:26:02 +1000 Received: from zen.canint.timetraveller.org (zen.canint.timetraveller.org [192.168.120.1]) by zen.canint.timetraveller.org (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h8TGPiK7012675; Mon, 29 Sep 2003 12:25:44 -0400 From: Robert Brockway X-X-Sender: robert@zen.canint.timetraveller.org To: Thamer Al-Harbash cc: gtasage-members@gtasage.org Subject: Re: [gtaSAGE-members] the LISA conference is coming up soon .... In-Reply-To: Message-ID: References: <200309251542.h8PFg1JA008083@localhost.generalconcepts.com> <20030928142035.GB19321@enfusion-group.com> <1064789082.17223.40.camel@jupiter.acf.aquezada.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: gtasage-members-admin@gtasage.org Errors-To: gtasage-members-admin@gtasage.org X-BeenThere: gtasage-members@gtasage.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: aligning system and network administrators in the greater Toronto area. List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon Sep 29 12:27:01 2003 X-Original-Date: Mon, 29 Sep 2003 12:25:44 -0400 (EDT) On Mon, 29 Sep 2003, Robert Brockway wrote: > On Sun, 28 Sep 2003, Thamer Al-Harbash wrote: > > > People with engineering positions at companies that want to stay > > cutting edge will attend. Operational people tend not to be sent > > to these things. > > Hi Thamer. My experiences tell me just the opposite. I think it is > precisely the operational people who are _not_ going to the conferences, > but I'd love to be proven wrong on this one. Ok, so I only skimmed your email before posting. My bad. I actually think those remaining cutting edge aren't going much either :( I suspect alot of managers and executives end up going to conferences. Rob -- Robert Brockway B.Sc. email: robert@timetraveller.org, zzbrock@uqconnect.net Linux counter project ID #16440 (http://counter.li.org) "The earth is but one country and mankind its citizens" -Baha'u'llah From adrian@enfusion-group.com Tue Sep 30 19:17:59 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: gtasage.org-gtasage-members@gtasage.org Received: (qmail 14319 invoked by uid 1004); 30 Sep 2003 15:17:59 -0400 Received: from adrian@enfusion-group.com by enfusion-group.com with qmail-scanner; 30 Sep 2003 19:17:59 -0000 Received: from smtp-auth.enfusion-group.com (216.220.40.201) by enfusion-group.com with SMTP id smtpdkXE8De; Tue, 30 Sep 2003 15:17:51 EDT Received: from enfusion-group.com (CPE0080c857bec4-CM014320002429.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com [24.102.49.105]) by smtp-auth.enfusion-group.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5E0D931 for ; Tue, 30 Sep 2003 15:17:51 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 24241 invoked by uid 500); 30 Sep 2003 15:17:50 -0400 From: Adrian Chung To: gtasage-members@gtasage.org Subject: Re: [gtaSAGE-members] the LISA conference is coming up soon .... Message-ID: <20030930191750.GF21530@enfusion-group.com> Mail-Followup-To: gtasage-members@gtasage.org References: <200309251542.h8PFg1JA008083@localhost.generalconcepts.com> <20030928142035.GB19321@enfusion-group.com> <200309251542.h8PFg1JA008083@localhost.generalconcepts.com> <2003092814203 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <1064789082.17223.40.camel@jupiter.acf.aquezada.com> User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.1i X-Operating-System: Linux 2.4.21 i686 Organization: Enfusion Group Sender: gtasage-members-admin@gtasage.org Errors-To: gtasage-members-admin@gtasage.org X-BeenThere: gtasage-members@gtasage.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: aligning system and network administrators in the greater Toronto area. List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue Sep 30 15:18:01 2003 X-Original-Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2003 15:17:50 -0400 On Sun, Sep 28, 2003 at 06:44:42PM -0400, Julian C. Dunn wrote: [...] > I agree with you completely. The price of taking time off work, paying > for a return ticket to some place in the States, paying for a hotel room > for several days, on top of the exorbitant conference fee, is generally > untenable for most of us working stiffs. The folks who are most > deserving of attendance at LISA are generally the ones who are the least > able to attend. > Since this is clearly the way things work I am looking forward to > starting my own company to be able to deduct all manner of professional > expenses. The only problem there is being able to make enough money to deduct your expenses from, and being able to take the time off to go. On Sun, Sep 28, 2003 at 09:33:30PM -0400, Thamer Al-Harbash wrote: [...] > People with engineering positions at companies that want to stay > cutting edge will attend. Operational people tend not to be sent > to these things. And I personally think that this is a problem. It's the operational people who *need* to go, because smart operational people are the ones who should be engineering and managing to begin with. A cutting edge non-technical manager is not very useful. At at least 10-15 companies I know of where I personally know people who work there, I know of one company that's willing to pay to train, send their employees to conferences and pick up the tab. The others couldn't care less other than the fact that you make it to work everyday. I'm of the belief that system administration is both an operational and engineering position, and requires "cutting edge" knowledge to perform well. On Mon, Sep 29, 2003 at 12:19:17PM -0400, Robert Brockway wrote: [...] > It's funny, we were just discussing this in a meeting. I'm starting > to wonder who all these people turning up to conferences are, > because its no one I know :) Do technical people ever get to go or > is it mainly management who I suspect would gain the least from > attendance? I have no idea. The one person that I've personally known to attend SAGE/USENIX conferences religiously is the current SAGE Executive Committee President. The other, John Sellens, is the secretary. :) Then again, most places I work, no one's ever heard of SAGE. -- Adrian Chung (adrian at enfusion-group dot com) http://www.enfusion-group.com/~adrian/ GPG Fingerprint: C620 C8EA 86BA 79CC 384C E7BE A10C 353B 919D 1A17 [rogue.genosha.enfusion-group.com] 3:05pm up 19 days, 16:17, 4 users From tmh@whitefang.com Tue Sep 30 20:00:21 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: gtasage.org-gtasage-members@gtasage.org Received: (qmail 15784 invoked by uid 1004); 30 Sep 2003 16:00:21 -0400 Received: from tmh@whitefang.com by enfusion-group.com with qmail-scanner; 30 Sep 2003 20:00:21 -0000 Received: from helena.whitefang.com (216.254.175.50) by enfusion-group.com with SMTP id smtpd36yrKD; Tue, 30 Sep 2003 16:00:11 EDT Received: (qmail 9531 invoked from network); 30 Sep 2003 20:00:27 -0000 Received: from helena.whitefang.com (216.254.175.50) by 0 with SMTP; 30 Sep 2003 20:00:27 -0000 From: Thamer Al-Harbash X-X-Sender: shadows@helena.whitefang.com To: gtasage-members@gtasage.org Subject: Re: [gtaSAGE-members] the LISA conference is coming up soon .... In-Reply-To: <20030930191750.GF21530@enfusion-group.com> Message-ID: References: <200309251542.h8PFg1JA008083@localhost.generalconcepts.com> <20030928142035.GB19321@enfusion-group.com> <200309251542.h8PFg1JA008083@localhost.generalconcepts.com> <2003092814203 <20030930191750.GF21530@enfusion-group.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: gtasage-members-admin@gtasage.org Errors-To: gtasage-members-admin@gtasage.org X-BeenThere: gtasage-members@gtasage.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: aligning system and network administrators in the greater Toronto area. List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue Sep 30 16:01:01 2003 X-Original-Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2003 16:00:27 -0400 (EDT) On Tue, 30 Sep 2003, Adrian Chung wrote: > And I personally think that this is a problem. It's the operational > people who *need* to go, because smart operational people are the ones > who should be engineering and managing to begin with. Please logically break down that paragraph and find the fallacy in it. > A cutting edge non-technical manager is not very useful. You seem to be very green in your ways. Managing is usually not very technical. Good managers wind up spending more time doing people work than computer work. It can be challenging too. > At at least 10-15 companies I know of where I personally know people > who work there, I know of one company that's willing to pay to train, > send their employees to conferences and pick up the tab. Yes. I work for a company that will pay for training, and we have forms to fill out for it too. This is common in big companies. Very common. I haven't requested to attend any conferences. A little too busy to be travelling around just to see more marketting crap. > I'm of the belief that system administration is both an operational > and engineering position, and requires "cutting edge" knowledge to > perform well. While I applaud your gusto I also think it's very naive. I think you think you're hot stuff but you haven't been challenged to the point where it becomes apparent to you that you're not super man. That's OK. It will come to pass too. And that pain you'll feel (in your chest), that will be your pride. Don't worry. That'll go away as well. -- Thamer Al-Harbash GPG Key fingerprint: D7F3 1E3B F329 8DD5 FAE3 03B1 A663 E359 D686 AA1F "haha this is another self-referential joke" From adrian@enfusion-group.com Tue Sep 30 20:15:53 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: gtasage.org-gtasage-members@gtasage.org Received: (qmail 16439 invoked by uid 1004); 30 Sep 2003 16:15:53 -0400 Received: from adrian@enfusion-group.com by enfusion-group.com with qmail-scanner; 30 Sep 2003 20:15:53 -0000 Received: from smtp-auth.enfusion-group.com (216.220.40.201) by enfusion-group.com with SMTP id smtpdQzb6LS; Tue, 30 Sep 2003 16:15:47 EDT Received: from enfusion-group.com (CPE0080c857bec4-CM014320002429.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com [24.102.49.105]) by smtp-auth.enfusion-group.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 99F5531 for ; Tue, 30 Sep 2003 16:15:46 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 24332 invoked by uid 500); 30 Sep 2003 16:15:45 -0400 From: Adrian Chung To: gtasage-members@gtasage.org Subject: Re: [gtaSAGE-members] the LISA conference is coming up soon .... Message-ID: <20030930201545.GH21530@enfusion-group.com> Mail-Followup-To: gtasage-members@gtasage.org References: <200309251542.h8PFg1JA008083@localhost.generalconcepts.com> <20030928142035.GB19321@enfusion-group.com> <200309251542.h8PFg1JA008083@localhost.generalconcepts.com> <2003093019175 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.1i X-Operating-System: Linux 2.4.21 i686 Organization: Enfusion Group Sender: gtasage-members-admin@gtasage.org Errors-To: gtasage-members-admin@gtasage.org X-BeenThere: gtasage-members@gtasage.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: aligning system and network administrators in the greater Toronto area. List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue Sep 30 16:16:01 2003 X-Original-Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2003 16:15:45 -0400 On Tue, Sep 30, 2003 at 04:00:27PM -0400, Thamer Al-Harbash wrote: > On Tue, 30 Sep 2003, Adrian Chung wrote: > > > And I personally think that this is a problem. It's the operational > > people who *need* to go, because smart operational people are the ones > > who should be engineering and managing to begin with. > > Please logically break down that paragraph and find the fallacy in > it. What, that operational people don't manage and engineer? > > A cutting edge non-technical manager is not very useful. > > You seem to be very green in your ways. Managing is usually not > very technical. Good managers wind up spending more time doing > people work than computer work. It can be challenging too. It's a personal opinion, which allows you no significant insight into either my abilities or ways. You're right, managing is not usually very technical. Some places, it is. The places where it is are the places I prefer to work. I passed no judgement about whether or not management was challenging. My simple statement was intended to suggest that LISA is a system administrator's conference. System administration is a technical discipline, even at its highest levels. I see little point in a manager who isn't technical attending. Again, my personal opinion. If a good manager spends more time doing people work than computer work, then is their time best spent attending technical conferences? > > At at least 10-15 companies I know of where I personally know people > > who work there, I know of one company that's willing to pay to train, > > send their employees to conferences and pick up the tab. > > Yes. I work for a company that will pay for training, and we have > forms to fill out for it too. This is common in big companies. > Very common. > > I haven't requested to attend any conferences. A little too busy > to be travelling around just to see more marketting crap. So 2 out of 16. That's "very common"? > > I'm of the belief that system administration is both an operational > > and engineering position, and requires "cutting edge" knowledge to > > perform well. > > While I applaud your gusto I also think it's very naive. I think you > think you're hot stuff but you haven't been challenged to the point > where it becomes apparent to you that you're not super man. That's > OK. It will come to pass too. And that pain you'll feel (in your > chest), that will be your pride. Don't worry. That'll go away as > well. And I'm glad you're not a judge. ;) -- Adrian Chung (adrian at enfusion-group dot com) http://www.enfusion-group.com/~adrian/ GPG Fingerprint: C620 C8EA 86BA 79CC 384C E7BE A10C 353B 919D 1A17 [rogue.genosha.enfusion-group.com] 4:05pm up 19 days, 17:17, 4 users From tmh@whitefang.com Tue Sep 30 20:35:54 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: gtasage.org-gtasage-members@gtasage.org Received: (qmail 17278 invoked by uid 1004); 30 Sep 2003 16:35:54 -0400 Received: from tmh@whitefang.com by enfusion-group.com with qmail-scanner; 30 Sep 2003 20:35:54 -0000 Received: from helena.whitefang.com (216.254.175.50) by enfusion-group.com with SMTP id smtpdL1Wl7B; Tue, 30 Sep 2003 16:35:43 EDT Received: (qmail 9912 invoked from network); 30 Sep 2003 20:36:01 -0000 Received: from helena.whitefang.com (216.254.175.50) by 0 with SMTP; 30 Sep 2003 20:36:01 -0000 From: Thamer Al-Harbash X-X-Sender: shadows@helena.whitefang.com To: gtasage-members@gtasage.org Subject: Re: [gtaSAGE-members] the LISA conference is coming up soon .... In-Reply-To: <20030930201545.GH21530@enfusion-group.com> Message-ID: References: <200309251542.h8PFg1JA008083@localhost.generalconcepts.com> <20030928142035.GB19321@enfusion-group.com> <200309251542.h8PFg1JA008083@localhost.generalconcepts.com> <2003093019175 <20030930201545.GH21530@enfusion-group.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: gtasage-members-admin@gtasage.org Errors-To: gtasage-members-admin@gtasage.org X-BeenThere: gtasage-members@gtasage.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: aligning system and network administrators in the greater Toronto area. List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue Sep 30 16:36:01 2003 X-Original-Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2003 16:36:01 -0400 (EDT) On Tue, 30 Sep 2003, Adrian Chung wrote: > What, that operational people don't manage and engineer? I was using these terms as mutually exclusive which they typically are in well structured organizations. > I passed no judgement about whether or not management was challenging. > My simple statement was intended to suggest that LISA is a system > administrator's conference. System administration is a technical > discipline, even at its highest levels. I see little point in a > manager who isn't technical attending. Again, my personal opinion. You want your managers to attend a technical conference. You want your managers or your senior people to go there. You definetly want your engineers to go there. You want your operations people to stay on-call. Maybe senior operations people should go. Have you taken a good hard look around the tech industry these days? How many people do you honestly think would benefit from a conference? Most of the current IT workers have TROUBLE READING MANUALS. > If a good manager spends more time doing people work than computer > work, then is their time best spent attending technical conferences? Sure, they get the technical stuff fed to them so they know what you're talking about when you burst into a meeting and demand that they listen to you :) > So 2 out of 16. That's "very common"? No idea about the other companies. Big organizations will always have some budget for training laid out. Small companies might or might not depending on whether the customer is footing the bill (usually). -- Thamer Al-Harbash GPG Key fingerprint: D7F3 1E3B F329 8DD5 FAE3 03B1 A663 E359 D686 AA1F "haha this is another self-referential joke" From jdunn@aquezada.com Tue Sep 30 20:41:14 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: gtasage.org-gtasage-members@gtasage.org Received: (qmail 17562 invoked by uid 1004); 30 Sep 2003 16:41:14 -0400 Received: from jdunn@aquezada.com by enfusion-group.com with qmail-scanner; 30 Sep 2003 20:41:14 -0000 Received: from H130.C231.tor.velocet.net (216.138.231.130, claiming to be "aphrodite.aquezada.com") by enfusion-group.com with SMTP id smtpde9nxDK; Tue, 30 Sep 2003 16:41:09 EDT Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by aphrodite.aquezada.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id ADEF9468 for ; Tue, 30 Sep 2003 16:40:03 -0400 (EDT) Received: from aphrodite.aquezada.com ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (aphrodite.acf.aquezada.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with LMTP id 24250-03 for ; Tue, 30 Sep 2003 16:40:02 -0400 (EDT) Received: from jupiter.acf.aquezada.com (jupiter.acf.aquezada.com [192.168.5.5]) by aphrodite.aquezada.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4581C3E0 for ; Tue, 30 Sep 2003 16:40:02 -0400 (EDT) Received: by jupiter.acf.aquezada.com (Postfix, from userid 1001) id 5C48E53369; Tue, 30 Sep 2003 16:41:02 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by jupiter.acf.aquezada.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5274B53368 for ; Tue, 30 Sep 2003 16:41:02 -0400 (EDT) From: "Julian C. Dunn" To: gtasage-members@gtasage.org Subject: Re: [gtaSAGE-members] the LISA conference is coming up soon .... In-Reply-To: Message-ID: References: <200309251542.h8PFg1JA008083@localhost.generalconcepts.com> <20030928142035.GB19321@enfusion-group.com> <200309251542.h8PFg1JA008083@localhost.generalconcepts.com> <2003092814203 <20030930191750.GF21530@enfusion-group.com> Organization: Aquezada Productions MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at aquezada.com Sender: gtasage-members-admin@gtasage.org Errors-To: gtasage-members-admin@gtasage.org X-BeenThere: gtasage-members@gtasage.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: aligning system and network administrators in the greater Toronto area. List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue Sep 30 16:42:01 2003 X-Original-Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2003 16:41:02 -0400 (EDT) Thamer, You are obviously missing the whole point of this discussion. The point is that I (and I believe Adrian, and Robert) feel that operational people are exactly the people who should be attending those particular conferences. I mean, just look at the first three items on the LISA home page and tell me whether they are more suited to operations staff or managers: # Training for both beginners and experienced attendees covers many administrative topics, ranging from basic procedures to using cutting-edge technologies. # Technical sessions present the latest developments and ideas related to system and network administration. # Invited Talks and Panels discuss important and timely topics in depth, and typically include lively and/or controversial debates. You seem to have this view that people who are inexperienced or not at the managerial level have no place at conferences. I have to strongly disagree with you and in fact the LISA homepage text supports my view. > Yes. I work for a company that will pay for training, and we have > forms to fill out for it too. This is common in big companies. > Very common. I should also point out the obvious - that not everyone works for a large company which has a training budget. You can consider yourself lucky. This just comes back to my point that if you do NOT work for a large company with available training funds or are not self-employed with the ability to write off your conference fees and travel expenses, the cost of attending a conference like LISA is prohibitive. Whether or not you hold the view that "small fish" like us don't "deserve" to go to the conferences has nothing to do with the validity of my argument. That is a personal opinion of yours and yours solely. > > I'm of the belief that system administration is both an operational > > and engineering position, and requires "cutting edge" knowledge to > > perform well. > > While I applaud your gusto I also think it's very naive. I think > you think you're hot stuff but you haven't been challenged to the > point where it becomes apparent to you that you're not super > man. That's OK. It will come to pass too. And that pain you'll > feel (in your chest), that will be your pride. Don't > worry. That'll go away as well. I don't see what, from Adrian's remarks, gives you the right to patronize him in this manner. Please stick to the topic at hand. - Julian -- [ Julian C. Dunn * ] [ WWW: www.aquezada.com/staff/julian/ * www.dreaming.org/~julian/ ] [ PGP: 0xFDC205B9 - 91B3 7A9D 683C 7C16 715F 442C 6065 D533 FDC2 05B9 ] [ "sometimes you win, sometimes you lose / and most times ] [ you choose between the two" - carole king, "sweet seasons" ] From tmh@whitefang.com Tue Sep 30 20:54:15 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: gtasage.org-gtasage-members@gtasage.org Received: (qmail 18004 invoked by uid 1004); 30 Sep 2003 16:54:15 -0400 Received: from tmh@whitefang.com by enfusion-group.com with qmail-scanner; 30 Sep 2003 20:54:15 -0000 Received: from helena.whitefang.com (216.254.175.50) by enfusion-group.com with SMTP id smtpdhnOEmW; Tue, 30 Sep 2003 16:54:10 EDT Received: (qmail 10144 invoked from network); 30 Sep 2003 20:54:28 -0000 Received: from helena.whitefang.com (216.254.175.50) by 0 with SMTP; 30 Sep 2003 20:54:28 -0000 From: Thamer Al-Harbash X-X-Sender: shadows@helena.whitefang.com To: gtasage-members@gtasage.org Subject: Re: [gtaSAGE-members] the LISA conference is coming up soon .... In-Reply-To: Message-ID: References: <200309251542.h8PFg1JA008083@localhost.generalconcepts.com> <20030928142035.GB19321@enfusion-group.com> <200309251542.h8PFg1JA008083@localhost.generalconcepts.com> <2003092814203 <20030930191750.GF21530@enfusion-group.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: gtasage-members-admin@gtasage.org Errors-To: gtasage-members-admin@gtasage.org X-BeenThere: gtasage-members@gtasage.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: aligning system and network administrators in the greater Toronto area. List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue Sep 30 16:55:01 2003 X-Original-Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2003 16:54:28 -0400 (EDT) On Tue, 30 Sep 2003, Julian C. Dunn wrote: > You are obviously missing the whole point of this discussion. The point is > that I (and I believe Adrian, and Robert) feel that operational people are > exactly the people who should be attending those particular conferences. I > mean, just look at the first three items on the LISA home page and tell me > whether they are more suited to operations staff or managers: I bet there will be plenty of Californians at LISA. Explain to me why someone in Canada would send their "beginner" staff off to a conference in another country though? It doesn't make _sense_ It would be cheaper to train them locally because there really isn't much you couldn't begin training them on. > Whether or not you hold the view that "small fish" like us don't "deserve" > to go to the conferences has nothing to do with the validity of my > argument. That is a personal opinion of yours and yours solely. I never said you didn't deserve it. Stop putting words in my mouth. I simply stated that large organizations tend to do more "business trips" and senior employees tend to be the ones to go. It also makes sense to do this. Adrian went off on how the lowly grunts should be given all the privileges, or something insane like that. > I don't see what, from Adrian's remarks, gives you the right to patronize > him in this manner. Please stick to the topic at hand. You are mistaken (and greviously so might I add). I already have the right to patronize whoever I want the second I bought my keyboard. If this is not to your liking I suggest you either return your keyboard or learn what a killfile is. -- Thamer Al-Harbash GPG Key fingerprint: D7F3 1E3B F329 8DD5 FAE3 03B1 A663 E359 D686 AA1F "haha this is another self-referential joke" From robert@timetraveller.org Tue Sep 30 20:55:15 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: gtasage.org-gtasage-members@gtasage.org Received: (qmail 18113 invoked by uid 1004); 30 Sep 2003 16:55:15 -0400 Received: from robert@timetraveller.org by enfusion-group.com with qmail-scanner; 30 Sep 2003 20:55:15 -0000 Received: from blake.timetraveller.org (203.23.43.10) by enfusion-group.com with SMTP id smtpdDA2A45; Tue, 30 Sep 2003 16:55:12 EDT Received: from zen.canint.timetraveller.org (CPE00105ae6b1e1-CM000039aeec61.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com [63.139.6.84]) by blake.timetraveller.org (8.12.3/8.12.3) with ESMTP id h8UKsuIa029000 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=OK); Wed, 1 Oct 2003 06:55:00 +1000 Received: from zen.canint.timetraveller.org (zen.canint.timetraveller.org [192.168.120.1]) by zen.canint.timetraveller.org (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h8UKshhm010565; Tue, 30 Sep 2003 16:54:43 -0400 From: Robert Brockway X-X-Sender: robert@zen.canint.timetraveller.org To: Adrian Chung cc: gtasage-members@gtasage.org Subject: Re: [gtaSAGE-members] the LISA conference is coming up soon .... In-Reply-To: <20030930191750.GF21530@enfusion-group.com> Message-ID: References: <200309251542.h8PFg1JA008083@localhost.generalconcepts.com> <20030928142035.GB19321@enfusion-group.com> <200309251542.h8PFg1JA008083@localhost.generalconcepts.com> <2003092814203 <20030930191750.GF21530@enfusion-group.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: gtasage-members-admin@gtasage.org Errors-To: gtasage-members-admin@gtasage.org X-BeenThere: gtasage-members@gtasage.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: aligning system and network administrators in the greater Toronto area. List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue Sep 30 16:56:02 2003 X-Original-Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2003 16:54:43 -0400 (EDT) On Tue, 30 Sep 2003, Adrian Chung wrote: > Then again, most places I work, no one's ever heard of SAGE. This was a culture shock for me. In Australia SAGE-AU is pretty well known (but not universally known). They've made a lot of effort to get to publicise the organisation. -- Robert Brockway B.Sc. email: robert@timetraveller.org, zzbrock@uqconnect.net Linux counter project ID #16440 (http://counter.li.org) "The earth is but one country and mankind its citizens" -Baha'u'llah From jdunn@aquezada.com Tue Sep 30 21:12:46 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: gtasage.org-gtasage-members@gtasage.org Received: (qmail 18827 invoked by uid 1004); 30 Sep 2003 17:12:46 -0400 Received: from jdunn@aquezada.com by enfusion-group.com with qmail-scanner; 30 Sep 2003 21:12:46 -0000 Received: from H130.C231.tor.velocet.net (216.138.231.130, claiming to be "aphrodite.aquezada.com") by enfusion-group.com with SMTP id smtpdiilRCT; Tue, 30 Sep 2003 17:12:45 EDT Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by aphrodite.aquezada.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C90C2468 for ; Tue, 30 Sep 2003 17:11:23 -0400 (EDT) Received: from aphrodite.aquezada.com ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (aphrodite.acf.aquezada.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with LMTP id 24421-03-4 for ; Tue, 30 Sep 2003 17:11:22 -0400 (EDT) Received: from jupiter.acf.aquezada.com (jupiter.acf.aquezada.com [192.168.5.5]) by aphrodite.aquezada.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6B7463E0 for ; Tue, 30 Sep 2003 17:11:22 -0400 (EDT) Received: by jupiter.acf.aquezada.com (Postfix, from userid 1001) id 8309653369; Tue, 30 Sep 2003 17:12:42 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by jupiter.acf.aquezada.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5BFD853368 for ; Tue, 30 Sep 2003 17:12:42 -0400 (EDT) From: "Julian C. Dunn" To: gtasage-members@gtasage.org Subject: Re: [gtaSAGE-members] the LISA conference is coming up soon .... In-Reply-To: Message-ID: References: <200309251542.h8PFg1JA008083@localhost.generalconcepts.com> <20030928142035.GB19321@enfusion-group.com> <200309251542.h8PFg1JA008083@localhost.generalconcepts.com> <2003092814203 <20030930191750.GF21530@enfusion-group.com> Organization: Aquezada Productions MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at aquezada.com Sender: gtasage-members-admin@gtasage.org Errors-To: gtasage-members-admin@gtasage.org X-BeenThere: gtasage-members@gtasage.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: aligning system and network administrators in the greater Toronto area. List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue Sep 30 17:13:01 2003 X-Original-Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2003 17:12:42 -0400 (EDT) On Tue, 30 Sep 2003, Thamer Al-Harbash wrote: > I bet there will be plenty of Californians at LISA. Explain to me > why someone in Canada would send their "beginner" staff off to a > conference in another country though? It doesn't make _sense_ It > would be cheaper to train them locally because there really isn't > much you couldn't begin training them on. So you are claiming that there is nothing at LISA that couldn't be learned elsewhere from "local training"? Why have LISA at all, then? LISA is more than just a "training" course, you know. > > Whether or not you hold the view that "small fish" like us don't "deserve" > > to go to the conferences has nothing to do with the validity of my > > argument. That is a personal opinion of yours and yours solely. > > I never said you didn't deserve it. Stop putting words in my > mouth. I simply stated that large organizations tend to do more > "business trips" and senior employees tend to be the ones to > go. It also makes sense to do this. I'm not disagreeing with you that senior employees "tend" to go. I'm saying that it's wrong, because those aren't the ONLY people who deserve to go. What I got from your message is the following: that if you don't work for a large company which has a training budget and expense accounts, or if you are not "experienced" enough to attend LISA, then it's too bad for you. Please correct me if I am wrong. > Adrian went off on how the lowly grunts should be given all the > privileges, or something insane like that. I didn't read that at all from his message. What portions of it gave you that opinion? > > I don't see what, from Adrian's remarks, gives you the right to patronize > > him in this manner. Please stick to the topic at hand. > > You are mistaken (and greviously so might I add). I already have > the right to patronize whoever I want the second I bought my > keyboard. If this is not to your liking I suggest you either > return your keyboard or learn what a killfile is. Just because you own a keyboard doesn't give you the right to be a jerk to people. For someone who claims to have a great deal of experience in the technical field I am surprised that you haven't discovered this yet. This is supposed to be a forum for technical topics. If you are unable to adhere to that, I would suggest that you take YOUR traffic elsewhere. - Julian -- [ Julian C. Dunn * ] [ WWW: www.aquezada.com/staff/julian/ * www.dreaming.org/~julian/ ] [ PGP: 0xFDC205B9 - 91B3 7A9D 683C 7C16 715F 442C 6065 D533 FDC2 05B9 ] [ "sometimes you win, sometimes you lose / and most times ] [ you choose between the two" - carole king, "sweet seasons" ] From tmh@whitefang.com Tue Sep 30 22:00:00 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: gtasage.org-gtasage-members@gtasage.org Received: (qmail 20332 invoked by uid 1004); 30 Sep 2003 18:00:00 -0400 Received: from tmh@whitefang.com by enfusion-group.com with qmail-scanner; 30 Sep 2003 22:00:00 -0000 Received: from helena.whitefang.com (216.254.175.50) by enfusion-group.com with SMTP id smtpdLCxjX7; Tue, 30 Sep 2003 17:59:55 EDT Received: (qmail 11063 invoked from network); 30 Sep 2003 22:00:12 -0000 Received: from helena.whitefang.com (216.254.175.50) by 0 with SMTP; 30 Sep 2003 22:00:12 -0000 From: Thamer Al-Harbash X-X-Sender: shadows@helena.whitefang.com To: gtasage-members@gtasage.org Subject: Re: [gtaSAGE-members] the LISA conference is coming up soon .... In-Reply-To: Message-ID: References: <200309251542.h8PFg1JA008083@localhost.generalconcepts.com> <20030928142035.GB19321@enfusion-group.com> <200309251542.h8PFg1JA008083@localhost.generalconcepts.com> <2003092814203 <20030930191750.GF21530@enfusion-group.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: gtasage-members-admin@gtasage.org Errors-To: gtasage-members-admin@gtasage.org X-BeenThere: gtasage-members@gtasage.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: aligning system and network administrators in the greater Toronto area. List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue Sep 30 18:00:02 2003 X-Original-Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2003 18:00:12 -0400 (EDT) On Tue, 30 Sep 2003, Julian C. Dunn wrote: > So you are claiming that there is nothing at LISA that couldn't be learned > elsewhere from "local training"? Why have LISA at all, then? LISA is more > than just a "training" course, you know. Operational people, especially junior ones are better served with local training. Senior employees and managers are better served at conferences. If LISA decided to give courses on newbie topics then they better have a big enough local client base to support it. > I'm not disagreeing with you that senior employees "tend" to go. I'm > saying that it's wrong, because those aren't the ONLY people who deserve > to go. Well that's too bad. We don't live in Thomas Moore's "Utopia." These things cost money to go to. If you live too far away and aren't important enough no one is going to ship you there just because you feel you deserve it. This whining is getting old. > What I got from your message is the following: that if you don't work for > a large company which has a training budget and expense accounts, or if > you are not "experienced" enough to attend LISA, then it's too bad for > you. Please correct me if I am wrong. I don't know about the "experienced" enough part. At least in the context you're making it out to be. I think the word you're looking for is "valuable." Even in a big company you need to be valuable enough to have them justify the cost. It just so happens that large companies get to write off more from their taxes that you don't necessarily have to be too valuable. > > Adrian went off on how the lowly grunts should be given all the > > privileges, or something insane like that. > > I didn't read that at all from his message. What portions of it gave you > that opinion? You are joking right? You must be. > Just because you own a keyboard doesn't give you the right to be a jerk to > people. For someone who claims to have a great deal of experience in the > technical field I am surprised that you haven't discovered this yet. When did I claim to have a great deal of experience? Why are you putting words in my mouth? Can I ask you to stop putting words in my mouth? > This is supposed to be a forum for technical topics. If you are unable to > adhere to that, I would suggest that you take YOUR traffic elsewhere. OMG, GIVE ME A SECOND WHILE I ROUTE MY PACKETS OFF SOMEWHERE ELSE HUGLUBHUHVHUHGUHUHLHUH (STILL ROUTING) -- Thamer Al-Harbash GPG Key fingerprint: D7F3 1E3B F329 8DD5 FAE3 03B1 A663 E359 D686 AA1F "haha this is another self-referential joke" From adrian@enfusion-group.com Wed Oct 01 00:29:39 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: gtasage.org-gtasage-members@gtasage.org Received: (qmail 25703 invoked by uid 1004); 30 Sep 2003 20:29:39 -0400 Received: from adrian@enfusion-group.com by enfusion-group.com with qmail-scanner; 01 Oct 2003 00:29:39 -0000 Received: from smtp-auth.enfusion-group.com (216.220.40.201) by enfusion-group.com with SMTP id smtpdTY3chq; Tue, 30 Sep 2003 20:29:30 EDT Received: from enfusion-group.com (CPE0080c857bec4-CM014320002429.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com [24.102.49.105]) by smtp-auth.enfusion-group.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2C24931 for ; Tue, 30 Sep 2003 20:29:29 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 24745 invoked by uid 500); 30 Sep 2003 20:29:28 -0400 From: Adrian Chung To: gtasage-members@gtasage.org Subject: Re: [gtaSAGE-members] the LISA conference is coming up soon .... Message-ID: <20031001002928.GA24692@enfusion-group.com> Mail-Followup-To: gtasage-members@gtasage.org References: <200309251542.h8PFg1JA008083@localhost.generalconcepts.com> <20030928142035.GB19321@enfusion-group.com> User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.1i X-Operating-System: Linux 2.4.21 i686 Organization: Enfusion Group Sender: gtasage-members-admin@gtasage.org Errors-To: gtasage-members-admin@gtasage.org X-BeenThere: gtasage-members@gtasage.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: aligning system and network administrators in the greater Toronto area. List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue Sep 30 20:30:01 2003 X-Original-Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2003 20:29:28 -0400 On Tue, Sep 30, 2003 at 04:54:28PM -0400, Thamer Al-Harbash wrote: [...] > Adrian went off on how the lowly grunts should be given all the > privileges, or something insane like that. Maybe you're confusing the term "operational" staff with "beginner" staff. My definition of operational staff is staff who are actively involved with the maintenance, operation and supervision of (in this case) systems and/or networks. So this includes a wide range of people, including the lowly grunts, and senior management/technical staff. I have yet to see a case where an entry level staff member can't teach a senior member something of value -- even if it's on a much less frequent basis than the reverse case may be. > > I don't see what, from Adrian's remarks, gives you the right to > > patronize him in this manner. Please stick to the topic at hand. > > You are mistaken (and greviously so might I add). I already have > the right to patronize whoever I want the second I bought my > keyboard. If this is not to your liking I suggest you either > return your keyboard or learn what a killfile is. Mailing lists have a cure for this type of behaviour too, it's called moderation. -- Adrian Chung (adrian at enfusion-group dot com) http://www.enfusion-group.com/~adrian/ GPG Fingerprint: C620 C8EA 86BA 79CC 384C E7BE A10C 353B 919D 1A17 [rogue.genosha.enfusion-group.com] 8:18pm up 19 days, 21:30, 4 users From adrian@enfusion-group.com Wed Oct 01 00:31:29 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: gtasage.org-gtasage-members@gtasage.org Received: (qmail 25823 invoked by uid 1004); 30 Sep 2003 20:31:29 -0400 Received: from adrian@enfusion-group.com by enfusion-group.com with qmail-scanner; 01 Oct 2003 00:31:29 -0000 Received: from smtp-auth.enfusion-group.com (216.220.40.201) by enfusion-group.com with SMTP id smtpdJpds1l; Tue, 30 Sep 2003 20:31:22 EDT Received: from enfusion-group.com (CPE0080c857bec4-CM014320002429.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com [24.102.49.105]) by smtp-auth.enfusion-group.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9EEB035 for ; Tue, 30 Sep 2003 20:31:21 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 24763 invoked by uid 500); 30 Sep 2003 20:31:21 -0400 From: Adrian Chung To: Robert Brockway Cc: gtasage-members@gtasage.org Subject: Re: [gtaSAGE-members] the LISA conference is coming up soon .... Message-ID: <20031001003120.GB24692@enfusion-group.com> Mail-Followup-To: Robert Brockway , gtasage-members@gtasage.org References: <200309251542.h8PFg1JA008083@localhost.generalconcepts.com> <20030928142035.GB19321@enfusion-group.com> <200309251542.h8PFg1JA008083@localhost.generalconcepts.com> <2003093019175 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.1i X-Operating-System: Linux 2.4.21 i686 Organization: Enfusion Group Sender: gtasage-members-admin@gtasage.org Errors-To: gtasage-members-admin@gtasage.org X-BeenThere: gtasage-members@gtasage.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: aligning system and network administrators in the greater Toronto area. List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue Sep 30 20:32:01 2003 X-Original-Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2003 20:31:21 -0400 On Tue, Sep 30, 2003 at 04:54:43PM -0400, Robert Brockway wrote: > On Tue, 30 Sep 2003, Adrian Chung wrote: > > > Then again, most places I work, no one's ever heard of SAGE. > > This was a culture shock for me. In Australia SAGE-AU is pretty > well known (but not universally known). They've made a lot of > effort to get to publicise the organisation. And I don't know if the case is different in the US. SAGE has no official Canadian group, so that might be part of the difference as well. I used to work with a few Australian's and they all were either involved, members of, or at least had heard of SAGE-AU. -- Adrian Chung (adrian at enfusion-group dot com) http://www.enfusion-group.com/~adrian/ GPG Fingerprint: C620 C8EA 86BA 79CC 384C E7BE A10C 353B 919D 1A17 [rogue.genosha.enfusion-group.com] 8:30pm up 19 days, 21:42, 4 users From tmh@whitefang.com Wed Oct 01 01:03:02 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: gtasage.org-gtasage-members@gtasage.org Received: (qmail 27004 invoked by uid 1004); 30 Sep 2003 21:03:01 -0400 Received: from tmh@whitefang.com by enfusion-group.com with qmail-scanner; 01 Oct 2003 01:03:01 -0000 Received: from helena.whitefang.com (216.254.175.50) by enfusion-group.com with SMTP id smtpdtvSEV5; Tue, 30 Sep 2003 21:02:56 EDT Received: (qmail 13112 invoked from network); 1 Oct 2003 01:03:13 -0000 Received: from helena.whitefang.com (216.254.175.50) by 0 with SMTP; 1 Oct 2003 01:03:13 -0000 From: Thamer Al-Harbash X-X-Sender: shadows@helena.whitefang.com To: gtasage-members@gtasage.org Subject: Re: [gtaSAGE-members] the LISA conference is coming up soon .... In-Reply-To: <20031001002928.GA24692@enfusion-group.com> Message-ID: References: <200309251542.h8PFg1JA008083@localhost.generalconcepts.com> <20030928142035.GB19321@enfusion-group.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: gtasage-members-admin@gtasage.org Errors-To: gtasage-members-admin@gtasage.org X-BeenThere: gtasage-members@gtasage.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: aligning system and network administrators in the greater Toronto area. List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue Sep 30 21:04:01 2003 X-Original-Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2003 21:03:12 -0400 (EDT) On Tue, 30 Sep 2003, Adrian Chung wrote: > Maybe you're confusing the term "operational" staff with "beginner" > staff. My definition of operational staff is staff who are actively > involved with the maintenance, operation and supervision of (in this > case) systems and/or networks. So this includes a wide range of > people, including the lowly grunts, and senior management/technical > staff. You're going to send some monkey all the way to California to get his training? I want to see you start a business and try to balance the books with this attitude. > Mailing lists have a cure for this type of behaviour too, it's called > moderation. We live in a world where people are just copies of copies of copies of nothing. Then when someone tries to knock some sense into these fakes they get all uppity and start to make threats. -- Thamer Al-Harbash GPG Key fingerprint: D7F3 1E3B F329 8DD5 FAE3 03B1 A663 E359 D686 AA1F "haha this is another self-referential joke" From scott5@ovsage.org Wed Oct 01 01:47:24 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: gtasage.org-gtasage-members@gtasage.org Received: (qmail 28593 invoked by uid 1004); 30 Sep 2003 21:47:24 -0400 Received: from scott5@ovsage.org by enfusion-group.com with qmail-scanner; 01 Oct 2003 01:47:24 -0000 Received: from scott5.istop.com (66.11.173.177, claiming to be "ovsage.org") by enfusion-group.com with SMTP id smtpd4Zbj1Y; Tue, 30 Sep 2003 21:47:13 EDT Received: (qmail 1658 invoked from network); 1 Oct 2003 01:47:09 -0000 Received: from pc-00065 (HELO twofish) (10.10.1.65) by gateway.ovsage.org (10.10.1.1) with SMTP; 01 Oct 2003 01:47:09 -0000 From: "D. Scott Murphy" To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 In-Reply-To: <20030930160002.7421.35344.Mailman@gambit.enfusion-group.com> Importance: Normal Subject: [gtaSAGE-members] RE: gtaSAGE-members digest, Vol 1 #31 - 3 msgs Sender: gtasage-members-admin@gtasage.org Errors-To: gtasage-members-admin@gtasage.org X-BeenThere: gtasage-members@gtasage.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: aligning system and network administrators in the greater Toronto area. List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue Sep 30 21:48:01 2003 X-Original-Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2003 21:51:39 -0400 Sorry to be late to the conversation, but I've attended 8 out of the last 10 LISA conferences, all paid for by my employer. Unfortunately, this is not the case last year or this year, so I have not been fortunate enough to attend. I guess I'll have to write a paper or something to get an invite to speak, guaranteeing me an attendance :) Seriously though, It's probably the most informative event I've ever attended. Well worth it. If my wife was not currently unemployed, I'd be going on my own dime. Cheers, Scott > -----Original Message----- > From: gtasage-members-admin@gtasage.org > [mailto:gtasage-members-admin@gtasage.org]On Behalf Of > gtasage-members-request@gtasage.org > Sent: Tuesday, September 30, 2003 12:00 PM > To: gtasage-members@gtasage.org > Subject: gtaSAGE-members digest, Vol 1 #31 - 3 msgs > > > Send gtaSAGE-members mailing list submissions to > gtasage-members@gtasage.org > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > http://lists.enfusion-group.com/mailman/listinfo/gtasage-members > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > gtasage-members-request@gtasage.org > > You can reach the person managing the list at > gtasage-members-admin@gtasage.org > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific > than "Re: Contents of gtaSAGE-members digest..." > > > Today's Topics: > > 1. Re: the LISA conference is coming up soon .... (Robert Brockway) > 2. Re: the LISA conference is coming up soon .... (Robert Brockway) > 3. Re: the LISA conference is coming up soon .... (Robert Brockway) > > --__--__-- > > Message: 1 > Date: Mon, 29 Sep 2003 12:19:17 -0400 (EDT) > From: Robert Brockway > To: Adrian Chung > cc: gtasage-members@gtasage.org > Subject: Re: [gtaSAGE-members] the LISA conference is coming up soon .... > > On Sun, 28 Sep 2003, Adrian Chung wrote: > > > How many people on this list are privileged enough to have their > > employers support conferences throughout the year (either with > > time-off, and/or financially)? These days, I find it difficult to > > believe that it's all that common... > > It's funny, we were just discussing this in a meeting. I'm starting to > wonder who all these people turning up to conferences are, because its no > one I know :) Do technical people ever get to go or is it mainly > management who I suspect would gain the least from attendance? > > Rob > > -- > Robert Brockway B.Sc. email: robert@timetraveller.org, > zzbrock@uqconnect.net > Linux counter project ID #16440 (http://counter.li.org) > "The earth is but one country and mankind its citizens" -Baha'u'llah > > --__--__-- > > Message: 2 > Date: Mon, 29 Sep 2003 12:22:38 -0400 (EDT) > From: Robert Brockway > To: Thamer Al-Harbash > cc: gtasage-members@gtasage.org > Subject: Re: [gtaSAGE-members] the LISA conference is coming up soon .... > > On Sun, 28 Sep 2003, Thamer Al-Harbash wrote: > > > People with engineering positions at companies that want to stay > > cutting edge will attend. Operational people tend not to be sent > > to these things. > > Hi Thamer. My experiences tell me just the opposite. I think it is > precisely the operational people who are _not_ going to the conferences, > but I'd love to be proven wrong on this one. > > Rob > > -- > Robert Brockway B.Sc. email: robert@timetraveller.org, > zzbrock@uqconnect.net > Linux counter project ID #16440 (http://counter.li.org) > "The earth is but one country and mankind its citizens" -Baha'u'llah > > --__--__-- > > Message: 3 > Date: Mon, 29 Sep 2003 12:25:44 -0400 (EDT) > From: Robert Brockway > To: Thamer Al-Harbash > cc: gtasage-members@gtasage.org > Subject: Re: [gtaSAGE-members] the LISA conference is coming up soon .... > > On Mon, 29 Sep 2003, Robert Brockway wrote: > > > On Sun, 28 Sep 2003, Thamer Al-Harbash wrote: > > > > > People with engineering positions at companies that want to stay > > > cutting edge will attend. Operational people tend not to be sent > > > to these things. > > > > Hi Thamer. My experiences tell me just the opposite. I think it is > > precisely the operational people who are _not_ going to the conferences, > > but I'd love to be proven wrong on this one. > > Ok, so I only skimmed your email before posting. My bad. I actually > think those remaining cutting edge aren't going much either :( I suspect > alot of managers and executives end up going to conferences. > > Rob > > -- > Robert Brockway B.Sc. email: robert@timetraveller.org, > zzbrock@uqconnect.net > Linux counter project ID #16440 (http://counter.li.org) > "The earth is but one country and mankind its citizens" -Baha'u'llah > > > --__--__-- > > _______________________________________________ > gtaSAGE-members mailing list > gtaSAGE-members@gtasage.org > http://lists.enfusion-group.com/mailman/listinfo/gtasage-members > > > End of gtaSAGE-members Digest > From jdunn@aquezada.com Wed Oct 01 04:21:23 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: gtasage.org-gtasage-members@gtasage.org Received: (qmail 534 invoked by uid 1004); 1 Oct 2003 00:21:23 -0400 Received: from jdunn@aquezada.com by enfusion-group.com with qmail-scanner; 01 Oct 2003 04:21:23 -0000 Received: from H130.C231.tor.velocet.net (216.138.231.130, claiming to be "aphrodite.aquezada.com") by enfusion-group.com with SMTP id smtpdKc8uti; Wed, 01 Oct 2003 00:21:17 EDT Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by aphrodite.aquezada.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 45E74468 for ; Wed, 1 Oct 2003 00:18:12 -0400 (EDT) Received: from aphrodite.aquezada.com ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (aphrodite.acf.aquezada.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with LMTP id 25848-03 for ; Wed, 1 Oct 2003 00:18:10 -0400 (EDT) Received: from jupiter.acf.aquezada.com (jupiter.acf.aquezada.com [192.168.5.5]) by aphrodite.aquezada.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C1F6C3E0 for ; Wed, 1 Oct 2003 00:18:10 -0400 (EDT) Received: by jupiter.acf.aquezada.com (Postfix, from userid 1001) id 3D75053369; Wed, 1 Oct 2003 00:21:13 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Re: [gtaSAGE-members] the LISA conference is coming up soon .... From: "Julian C. Dunn" To: gtasage-members@gtasage.org In-Reply-To: References: <200309251542.h8PFg1JA008083@localhost.generalconcepts.com> <20030928142035.GB19321@enfusion-group.com> <200309251542.h8PFg1JA008083@localhost.generalconcepts.com> <2003092814203 <20030930191750.GF21530@enfusion-group.com> Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Organization: Aquezada Productions Message-Id: <1064982072.17221.145.camel@jupiter.acf.aquezada.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Ximian Evolution 1.4.5 X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at aquezada.com Sender: gtasage-members-admin@gtasage.org Errors-To: gtasage-members-admin@gtasage.org X-BeenThere: gtasage-members@gtasage.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: aligning system and network administrators in the greater Toronto area. List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed Oct 1 00:22:01 2003 X-Original-Date: Wed, 01 Oct 2003 00:21:13 -0400 On Tue, 2003-09-30 at 18:00, Thamer Al-Harbash wrote: > Operational people, especially junior ones are better served with > local training. Senior employees and managers are better served > at conferences. If LISA decided to give courses on newbie topics > then they better have a big enough local client base to support > it. That's your view and you're entitled to it. However, LISA is billed specifically as a hands-on type conference for people who have to solve real-world problems and want to know specific solutions. For example on sage-members we are having a discussion about solving POP traffic load for large ISPs (tens of thousands or hundreds of thousands of user accounts). Brad Knowles from Skynet presented a paper at one of these conferences whose content is directly relevant to the *operational* people. So, as I pointed out before, it is not about "training" -- LISA is much more than just training. > > I'm not disagreeing with you that senior employees "tend" to go. I'm > > saying that it's wrong, because those aren't the ONLY people who deserve > > to go. > > Well that's too bad. We don't live in Thomas Moore's "Utopia." > These things cost money to go to. If you live too far away and > aren't important enough no one is going to ship you there just > because you feel you deserve it. This whining is getting old. Call it what you like, Thamer, but I will state it for you one more time in the (possibly misguided) hope that you will finally understand my point: I don't mind actually paying for a plane ticket and accommodation to go to a place like San Francisco. Hell, I can make a vacation out of it. What I object to is the prospect of paying for a massive conference fee on top of that. To me, the pricing structure of the conference targets it to people who are not the best ones to benefit from it. > > > Adrian went off on how the lowly grunts should be given all the > > > privileges, or something insane like that. > > > > I didn't read that at all from his message. What portions of it gave you > > that opinion? > > You are joking right? You must be. I'm not joking. You make some claims about me putting words in your mouth. In my view you are putting words in Adrian's mouth. > > Just because you own a keyboard doesn't give you the right to be a jerk to > > people. For someone who claims to have a great deal of experience in the > > technical field I am surprised that you haven't discovered this yet. > > When did I claim to have a great deal of experience? Why are you > putting words in my mouth? Can I ask you to stop putting words in > my mouth? You remind me of a former colleague of mine who used to say this a lot. Like him you are being disingenuous; in previous e-mails in this thread you basically said told Adrian that he is too "green" to understand why managers and not operations staff get to go to conferences, and that he (in your words) thinks he is "hot stuff" and eventually it will "come to pass". You can't possibly say that without implicitly claiming that you have already passed this supposed milestone. - Julian -- [ Julian C. Dunn * ] [ WWW: www.aquezada.com/staff/julian/ * www.dreaming.org/~julian/ ] [ PGP: 0xFDC205B9 - 91B3 7A9D 683C 7C16 715F 442C 6065 D533 FDC2 05B9 ] [ "sometimes you win, sometimes you lose / and most times ] [ you choose between the two" - carole king, "sweet seasons" ] From jdunn@aquezada.com Wed Oct 01 04:28:44 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: gtasage.org-gtasage-members@gtasage.org Received: (qmail 828 invoked by uid 1004); 1 Oct 2003 00:28:44 -0400 Received: from jdunn@aquezada.com by enfusion-group.com with qmail-scanner; 01 Oct 2003 04:28:44 -0000 Received: from H130.C231.tor.velocet.net (216.138.231.130, claiming to be "aphrodite.aquezada.com") by enfusion-group.com with SMTP id smtpdWabglm; Wed, 01 Oct 2003 00:28:41 EDT Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by aphrodite.aquezada.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id BFBE1468 for ; Wed, 1 Oct 2003 00:24:08 -0400 (EDT) Received: from aphrodite.aquezada.com ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (aphrodite.acf.aquezada.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with LMTP id 25847-05 for ; Wed, 1 Oct 2003 00:24:07 -0400 (EDT) Received: from jupiter.acf.aquezada.com (jupiter.acf.aquezada.com [192.168.5.5]) by aphrodite.aquezada.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6A19B3E0 for ; Wed, 1 Oct 2003 00:24:07 -0400 (EDT) Received: by jupiter.acf.aquezada.com (Postfix, from userid 1001) id F1E0053369; Wed, 1 Oct 2003 00:28:38 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Re: [gtaSAGE-members] the LISA conference is coming up soon .... From: "Julian C. Dunn" To: gtasage-members@gtasage.org In-Reply-To: References: <200309251542.h8PFg1JA008083@localhost.generalconcepts.com> <20030928142035.GB19321@enfusion-group.com> Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Organization: Aquezada Productions Message-Id: <1064982518.17221.153.camel@jupiter.acf.aquezada.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Ximian Evolution 1.4.5 X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at aquezada.com Sender: gtasage-members-admin@gtasage.org Errors-To: gtasage-members-admin@gtasage.org X-BeenThere: gtasage-members@gtasage.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: aligning system and network administrators in the greater Toronto area. List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed Oct 1 00:29:01 2003 X-Original-Date: Wed, 01 Oct 2003 00:28:38 -0400 On Tue, 2003-09-30 at 21:03, Thamer Al-Harbash wrote: > On Tue, 30 Sep 2003, Adrian Chung wrote: > > > Maybe you're confusing the term "operational" staff with "beginner" > > staff. My definition of operational staff is staff who are actively > > involved with the maintenance, operation and supervision of (in this > > case) systems and/or networks. So this includes a wide range of > > people, including the lowly grunts, and senior management/technical > > staff. > > You're going to send some monkey all the way to California to get > his training? I want to see you start a business and try to > balance the books with this attitude. Until you stop seeing everyone who is not a guru as a moron, there is no possible way me or Adrian are going to convince you of anything. This sort of black-and-white world view isn't helpful to the profession of system administration, so long as you continue to denigrate those folks who you consider less experienced than you as "monkeys". > > Mailing lists have a cure for this type of behaviour too, it's called > > moderation. > > We live in a world where people are just copies of copies of > copies of nothing. Then when someone tries to knock some sense > into these fakes they get all uppity and start to make threats. Nobody's threatening you, Thamer, but perhaps it's time you started asking yourself why you're not welcome on many other forums such as GTABUG or TLUG. Surely it isn't just because you have opinions that are different from other community members. - Julian -- [ Julian C. Dunn * ] [ WWW: www.aquezada.com/staff/julian/ * www.dreaming.org/~julian/ ] [ PGP: 0xFDC205B9 - 91B3 7A9D 683C 7C16 715F 442C 6065 D533 FDC2 05B9 ] [ "sometimes you win, sometimes you lose / and most times ] [ you choose between the two" - carole king, "sweet seasons" ] From jdunn@aquezada.com Wed Oct 01 04:32:54 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: gtasage.org-gtasage-members@gtasage.org Received: (qmail 1061 invoked by uid 1004); 1 Oct 2003 00:32:54 -0400 Received: from jdunn@aquezada.com by enfusion-group.com with qmail-scanner; 01 Oct 2003 04:32:54 -0000 Received: from H130.C231.tor.velocet.net (216.138.231.130, claiming to be "aphrodite.aquezada.com") by enfusion-group.com with SMTP id smtpdJbuODh; Wed, 01 Oct 2003 00:32:47 EDT Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by aphrodite.aquezada.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3CC21468 for ; Wed, 1 Oct 2003 00:27:25 -0400 (EDT) Received: from aphrodite.aquezada.com ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (aphrodite.acf.aquezada.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with LMTP id 25847-06 for ; Wed, 1 Oct 2003 00:27:23 -0400 (EDT) Received: from jupiter.acf.aquezada.com (jupiter.acf.aquezada.com [192.168.5.5]) by aphrodite.aquezada.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D90A23E0 for ; Wed, 1 Oct 2003 00:27:23 -0400 (EDT) Received: by jupiter.acf.aquezada.com (Postfix, from userid 1001) id 9E4D953369; Wed, 1 Oct 2003 00:32:44 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Re: [gtaSAGE-members] the LISA conference is coming up soon .... From: "Julian C. Dunn" To: gtasage-members@gtasage.org In-Reply-To: <20031001003120.GB24692@enfusion-group.com> References: <200309251542.h8PFg1JA008083@localhost.generalconcepts.com> <20030928142035.GB19321@enfusion-group.com> <200309251542.h8PFg1JA008083@localhost.generalconcepts.com> <2003093019175 <20031001003120.GB24692@enfusion-group.com> Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Organization: Aquezada Productions Message-Id: <1064982764.17221.158.camel@jupiter.acf.aquezada.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Ximian Evolution 1.4.5 X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at aquezada.com Sender: gtasage-members-admin@gtasage.org Errors-To: gtasage-members-admin@gtasage.org X-BeenThere: gtasage-members@gtasage.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: aligning system and network administrators in the greater Toronto area. List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed Oct 1 00:33:01 2003 X-Original-Date: Wed, 01 Oct 2003 00:32:44 -0400 On Tue, 2003-09-30 at 20:31, Adrian Chung wrote: > On Tue, Sep 30, 2003 at 04:54:43PM -0400, Robert Brockway wrote: > > On Tue, 30 Sep 2003, Adrian Chung wrote: > > > > > Then again, most places I work, no one's ever heard of SAGE. > > > > This was a culture shock for me. In Australia SAGE-AU is pretty > > well known (but not universally known). They've made a lot of > > effort to get to publicise the organisation. > > And I don't know if the case is different in the US. SAGE has no > official Canadian group, so that might be part of the difference as > well. > > I used to work with a few Australian's and they all were either > involved, members of, or at least had heard of SAGE-AU. As Robert pointed out to me once (hi Robert), SAGE-AU is not actually affiliated with the US USENIX/SAGE. This probably gives them a greater deal of independence, and also makes it easier for new users to join given that the membership fee is likely lower. Not that I mind paying for a USENIX membership -- I was a USENIX member before I was a SAGE member and I find both organizations very beneficial -- but I imagine that for many SA's, having to pay for something that they perceive as "irrelevant" (i.e. USENIX) is a big barrier to getting more people to join SAGE. - Julian -- [ Julian C. Dunn * ] [ WWW: www.aquezada.com/staff/julian/ * www.dreaming.org/~julian/ ] [ PGP: 0xFDC205B9 - 91B3 7A9D 683C 7C16 715F 442C 6065 D533 FDC2 05B9 ] [ "sometimes you win, sometimes you lose / and most times ] [ you choose between the two" - carole king, "sweet seasons" ] From tmh@whitefang.com Wed Oct 01 06:24:21 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: gtasage.org-gtasage-members@gtasage.org Received: (qmail 4554 invoked by uid 1004); 1 Oct 2003 02:24:21 -0400 Received: from tmh@whitefang.com by enfusion-group.com with qmail-scanner; 01 Oct 2003 06:24:21 -0000 Received: from helena.whitefang.com (216.254.175.50) by enfusion-group.com with SMTP id smtpdjoQrmF; Wed, 01 Oct 2003 02:24:17 EDT Received: (qmail 17093 invoked from network); 1 Oct 2003 06:24:32 -0000 Received: from helena.whitefang.com (216.254.175.50) by 0 with SMTP; 1 Oct 2003 06:24:32 -0000 From: Thamer Al-Harbash X-X-Sender: shadows@helena.whitefang.com To: gtasage-members@gtasage.org Subject: Re: [gtaSAGE-members] the LISA conference is coming up soon .... In-Reply-To: <1064982518.17221.153.camel@jupiter.acf.aquezada.com> Message-ID: References: <200309251542.h8PFg1JA008083@localhost.generalconcepts.com> <20030928142035.GB19321@enfusion-group.com> <1064982518.17221.153.camel@jupiter.acf.aquezada.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: gtasage-members-admin@gtasage.org Errors-To: gtasage-members-admin@gtasage.org X-BeenThere: gtasage-members@gtasage.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: aligning system and network administrators in the greater Toronto area. List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed Oct 1 02:25:01 2003 X-Original-Date: Wed, 1 Oct 2003 02:24:32 -0400 (EDT) On Wed, 1 Oct 2003, Julian C. Dunn wrote: > Nobody's threatening you, Thamer, but perhaps it's time you started > asking yourself why you're not welcome on many other forums such as > GTABUG or TLUG. Surely it isn't just because you have opinions that are > different from other community members. Let's see here, GTABUG was at the time run by someone who seemed to be quite off mentally. He was asking for it, so I gave him the opportunity to exercise his power. TLUG kicked plenty of people off. I just happened to persist in exposing them of their childish silly ways. Incidently TLUG hasn't changed much at all. It is still frequented by Bruce Perens wanna-bes. It's funny how selective your memory is though. Quite typical. Julian why is it that both those groups are usually frequented by unemployed monkeys? Do you see a pattern here? Good. -- Thamer Al-Harbash GPG Key fingerprint: D7F3 1E3B F329 8DD5 FAE3 03B1 A663 E359 D686 AA1F "haha this is another self-referential joke" From tmh@whitefang.com Wed Oct 01 06:27:51 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: gtasage.org-gtasage-members@gtasage.org Received: (qmail 4722 invoked by uid 1004); 1 Oct 2003 02:27:51 -0400 Received: from tmh@whitefang.com by enfusion-group.com with qmail-scanner; 01 Oct 2003 06:27:51 -0000 Received: from helena.whitefang.com (216.254.175.50) by enfusion-group.com with SMTP id smtpdh7WJxe; Wed, 01 Oct 2003 02:27:43 EDT Received: (qmail 17129 invoked from network); 1 Oct 2003 06:27:58 -0000 Received: from helena.whitefang.com (216.254.175.50) by 0 with SMTP; 1 Oct 2003 06:27:58 -0000 From: Thamer Al-Harbash X-X-Sender: shadows@helena.whitefang.com To: gtasage-members@gtasage.org Subject: Re: [gtaSAGE-members] the LISA conference is coming up soon .... In-Reply-To: <1064982072.17221.145.camel@jupiter.acf.aquezada.com> Message-ID: References: <200309251542.h8PFg1JA008083@localhost.generalconcepts.com> <20030928142035.GB19321@enfusion-group.com> <200309251542.h8PFg1JA008083@localhost.generalconcepts.com> <2003092814203 <20030930191750.GF21530@enfusion-group.com> <1064982072.17221.145.camel@jupiter.acf.aquezada.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: gtasage-members-admin@gtasage.org Errors-To: gtasage-members-admin@gtasage.org X-BeenThere: gtasage-members@gtasage.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: aligning system and network administrators in the greater Toronto area. List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed Oct 1 02:28:01 2003 X-Original-Date: Wed, 1 Oct 2003 02:27:58 -0400 (EDT) On Wed, 1 Oct 2003, Julian C. Dunn wrote: > You remind me of a former colleague of mine who used to say this a lot. > Like him you are being disingenuous; in previous e-mails in this thread > you basically said told Adrian that he is too "green" to understand why > managers and not operations staff get to go to conferences, and that he > (in your words) thinks he is "hot stuff" and eventually it will "come to > pass". You can't possibly say that without implicitly claiming that you > have already passed this supposed milestone. Based on Adrian's own words I do believe he is quite green if he is of the opinion that any monkey behind a keyboard installing Red Hat can engineer and manage people; however it is your memory which continues to be selective and exagerrates that I somehow stood up on some giant pedestal and declared myself the one true gawd of the UNIXverse. Julian, when responding to my replies quote the relevant parts and don't add words -- kthanx. -- Thamer Al-Harbash GPG Key fingerprint: D7F3 1E3B F329 8DD5 FAE3 03B1 A663 E359 D686 AA1F "haha this is another self-referential joke" From tmh@whitefang.com Wed Oct 01 06:43:12 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: gtasage.org-gtasage-members@gtasage.org Received: (qmail 5160 invoked by uid 1004); 1 Oct 2003 02:43:12 -0400 Received: from tmh@whitefang.com by enfusion-group.com with qmail-scanner; 01 Oct 2003 06:43:12 -0000 Received: from helena.whitefang.com (216.254.175.50) by enfusion-group.com with SMTP id smtpdeV4g7o; Wed, 01 Oct 2003 02:43:03 EDT Received: (qmail 17277 invoked from network); 1 Oct 2003 06:43:18 -0000 Received: from helena.whitefang.com (216.254.175.50) by 0 with SMTP; 1 Oct 2003 06:43:18 -0000 From: Thamer Al-Harbash X-X-Sender: shadows@helena.whitefang.com To: gtasage-members@gtasage.org Subject: Re: [gtaSAGE-members] the LISA conference is coming up soon .... In-Reply-To: <1064982072.17221.145.camel@jupiter.acf.aquezada.com> Message-ID: References: <200309251542.h8PFg1JA008083@localhost.generalconcepts.com> <20030928142035.GB19321@enfusion-group.com> <200309251542.h8PFg1JA008083@localhost.generalconcepts.com> <2003092814203 <20030930191750.GF21530@enfusion-group.com> <1064982072.17221.145.camel@jupiter.acf.aquezada.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: gtasage-members-admin@gtasage.org Errors-To: gtasage-members-admin@gtasage.org X-BeenThere: gtasage-members@gtasage.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: aligning system and network administrators in the greater Toronto area. List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed Oct 1 02:44:01 2003 X-Original-Date: Wed, 1 Oct 2003 02:43:18 -0400 (EDT) On Wed, 1 Oct 2003, Julian C. Dunn wrote: Just a quick note. > That's your view and you're entitled to it. However, LISA is billed > specifically as a hands-on type conference for people who have to solve > real-world problems and want to know specific solutions. For example on > sage-members we are having a discussion about solving POP traffic load > for large ISPs (tens of thousands or hundreds of thousands of user > accounts). I've already done this. I don't see the "wow" factor here. Yes, 100k+ users. -- Thamer Al-Harbash GPG Key fingerprint: D7F3 1E3B F329 8DD5 FAE3 03B1 A663 E359 D686 AA1F "haha this is another self-referential joke" From adrian@enfusion-group.com Wed Oct 01 11:06:25 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: gtasage.org-gtasage-members@gtasage.org Received: (qmail 17196 invoked by uid 1004); 1 Oct 2003 07:06:25 -0400 Received: from adrian@enfusion-group.com by enfusion-group.com with qmail-scanner; 01 Oct 2003 11:06:25 -0000 Received: from smtp-auth.enfusion-group.com (216.220.40.201) by enfusion-group.com with SMTP id smtpdNm8g1v; Wed, 01 Oct 2003 07:06:23 EDT Received: from enfusion-group.com (CPE0080c857bec4-CM014320002429.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com [24.102.49.105]) by smtp-auth.enfusion-group.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 94D7135 for ; Wed, 1 Oct 2003 07:06:22 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 26030 invoked by uid 500); 1 Oct 2003 07:06:22 -0400 From: Adrian Chung To: Thamer Al-Harbash Cc: gtasage-members@gtasage.org Subject: Re: [gtaSAGE-members] the LISA conference is coming up soon .... Message-ID: <20031001110622.GG24692@enfusion-group.com> Mail-Followup-To: Thamer Al-Harbash , gtasage-members@gtasage.org References: <200309251542.h8PFg1JA008083@localhost.generalconcepts.com> <20030930191750.GF21530@enfusion-group.com> User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.1i X-Operating-System: Linux 2.4.21 i686 Organization: Enfusion Group Sender: gtasage-members-admin@gtasage.org Errors-To: gtasage-members-admin@gtasage.org X-BeenThere: gtasage-members@gtasage.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: aligning system and network administrators in the greater Toronto area. List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed Oct 1 07:07:01 2003 X-Original-Date: Wed, 1 Oct 2003 07:06:22 -0400 On Wed, Oct 01, 2003 at 02:27:58AM -0400, Thamer Al-Harbash wrote: > On Wed, 1 Oct 2003, Julian C. Dunn wrote: > > > You remind me of a former colleague of mine who used to say this a lot. > > Like him you are being disingenuous; in previous e-mails in this thread > > you basically said told Adrian that he is too "green" to understand why > > managers and not operations staff get to go to conferences, and that he > > (in your words) thinks he is "hot stuff" and eventually it will "come to > > pass". You can't possibly say that without implicitly claiming that you > > have already passed this supposed milestone. > > Based on Adrian's own words I do believe he is quite green if he > is of the opinion that any monkey behind a keyboard installing > Red Hat can engineer and manage people; however it is your memory > which continues to be selective and exagerrates that I somehow > stood up on some giant pedestal and declared myself the one true > gawd of the UNIXverse. [...] This thread was done a long time ago. Take the rest of this conversation off the list, if you want to continue it. Points have been made, opinions expressed. -- Adrian Chung (adrian at enfusion-group dot com) http://www.enfusion-group.com/~adrian/ GPG Fingerprint: C620 C8EA 86BA 79CC 384C E7BE A10C 353B 919D 1A17 [rogue.genosha.enfusion-group.com] 7:03am up 20 days, 8:15, 4 users From tmh@whitefang.com Wed Oct 01 14:31:08 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: gtasage.org-gtasage-members@gtasage.org Received: (qmail 23654 invoked by uid 1004); 1 Oct 2003 10:31:08 -0400 Received: from tmh@whitefang.com by enfusion-group.com with qmail-scanner; 01 Oct 2003 14:31:08 -0000 Received: from helena.whitefang.com (216.254.175.50) by enfusion-group.com with SMTP id smtpdvMtBPv; Wed, 01 Oct 2003 10:31:05 EDT Received: (qmail 22037 invoked from network); 1 Oct 2003 14:31:23 -0000 Received: from helena.whitefang.com (216.254.175.50) by 0 with SMTP; 1 Oct 2003 14:31:23 -0000 From: Thamer Al-Harbash X-X-Sender: shadows@helena.whitefang.com To: gtasage-members@gtasage.org Subject: Re: [gtaSAGE-members] the LISA conference is coming up soon .... In-Reply-To: <20031001110622.GG24692@enfusion-group.com> Message-ID: References: <200309251542.h8PFg1JA008083@localhost.generalconcepts.com> <20030930191750.GF21530@enfusion-group.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: gtasage-members-admin@gtasage.org Errors-To: gtasage-members-admin@gtasage.org X-BeenThere: gtasage-members@gtasage.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: aligning system and network administrators in the greater Toronto area. List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed Oct 1 10:32:01 2003 X-Original-Date: Wed, 1 Oct 2003 10:31:23 -0400 (EDT) On Wed, 1 Oct 2003, Adrian Chung wrote: > This thread was done a long time ago. Take the rest of this > conversation off the list, if you want to continue it. > > Points have been made, opinions expressed. You don't get to dictate the content of this mailing list based on what you think is done and not done. -- Thamer Al-Harbash GPG Key fingerprint: D7F3 1E3B F329 8DD5 FAE3 03B1 A663 E359 D686 AA1F "haha this is another self-referential joke" From duane@dbsconsulting.ca Wed Oct 01 22:27:10 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: gtasage.org-gtasage-members@gtasage.org Received: (qmail 9059 invoked by uid 1004); 1 Oct 2003 18:27:10 -0400 Received: from duane@dbsconsulting.ca by enfusion-group.com with qmail-scanner; 01 Oct 2003 22:27:10 -0000 Received: from CPE000795472f28-CM0010951569b2.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com (24.153.43.141, claiming to be "skippy.duanebedeau.com") by enfusion-group.com with SMTP id smtpddI0c2W; Wed, 01 Oct 2003 18:26:59 EDT Received: from skippy.duanebedeau.com (IDENT:1000@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by skippy.duanebedeau.com (8.12.4/8.12.4) with ESMTP id h91MSwO2028934 for ; Wed, 1 Oct 2003 18:28:58 -0400 Received: (from duane@localhost) by skippy.duanebedeau.com (8.12.4/8.12.4/Submit) id h91MSw1A028933; Wed, 1 Oct 2003 18:28:58 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: skippy.duanebedeau.com: duane set sender to duane@dbsconsulting.ca using -f Subject: Re: [gtaSAGE-members] the LISA conference is coming up soon .... From: Duane Bedeau To: gtasage In-Reply-To: <20031001110622.GG24692@enfusion-group.com> References: <200309251542.h8PFg1JA008083@localhost.generalconcepts.com> <20030930191750.GF21530@enfusion-group.com> Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Ximian Evolution 1.0.7 Message-Id: <1065047337.728.181.camel@skippy> Mime-Version: 1.0 Sender: gtasage-members-admin@gtasage.org Errors-To: gtasage-members-admin@gtasage.org X-BeenThere: gtasage-members@gtasage.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: aligning system and network administrators in the greater Toronto area. List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed Oct 1 18:28:01 2003 X-Original-Date: 01 Oct 2003 18:28:57 -0400 On Wed, 2003-10-01 at 07:06, Adrian Chung wrote: > > This thread was done a long time ago. Take the rest of this > conversation off the list, if you want to continue it. > > Points have been made, opinions expressed. > Hey! You can't say things like that you thread killer!! In my day, threads died when someone called someone else a nazi or something to that effect... This was in usenet though so perhaps the ettiquette is different! -- Duane Bedeau DBS Consulting Services Tel:(416)727-6506 http://www.dbsconsulting.ca Email:duane@dbsconsulting.ca From jsellens@generalconcepts.com Thu Oct 02 16:46:19 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: gtasage.org-gtasage-members@gtasage.org Received: (qmail 18872 invoked by uid 1004); 2 Oct 2003 12:46:19 -0400 Received: from jsellens@generalconcepts.com by enfusion-group.com with qmail-scanner; 02 Oct 2003 16:46:19 -0000 Received: from UNKNOWN (209.250.142.227, claiming to be "localhost.generalconcepts.com") by enfusion-group.com with SMTP id smtpdIOo1hl; Thu, 02 Oct 2003 12:46:12 EDT Received: from localhost.generalconcepts.com (localhost.generalconcepts.com [127.0.0.1]) by localhost.generalconcepts.com (8.12.8p2/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h92Gk5V3054646 for ; Thu, 2 Oct 2003 12:46:05 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from jsellens@localhost.generalconcepts.com) Received: (from jsellens@localhost) by localhost.generalconcepts.com (8.12.8p2/8.12.8/Submit) id h92Gk5ip054644 for gtasage-members@gtasage.org; Thu, 2 Oct 2003 12:46:05 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from jsellens) Message-Id: <200310021646.h92Gk5ip054644@localhost.generalconcepts.com> From: John Sellens To: gtasage-members@gtasage.org Subject: [gtaSAGE-members] Re: SAGE and SAGE-AU Sender: gtasage-members-admin@gtasage.org Errors-To: gtasage-members-admin@gtasage.org X-BeenThere: gtasage-members@gtasage.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: aligning system and network administrators in the greater Toronto area. List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu Oct 2 13:32:01 2003 X-Original-Date: Thu, 2 Oct 2003 12:46:05 -0400 (EDT) | This was a culture shock for me. In Australia SAGE-AU is pretty | well known (but not universally known). They've made a lot of | effort to get to publicise the organisation. SAGE-AU has done very well, and it's clear that they are doing a number of things very right. My (very remote) impression is that they have done very well in creating an active community, and in providing services that their members want. Geoff Halprin, ex-president (I believe) of SAGE-AU and now SAGE president, points out that the SAGE-AU leather jackets are a hot item. SAGE (US/CAN/etc.) has not done as well in making itself visible. We've had some success in some areas, but not as widely as we would like. We're working to make SAGE more accessible, and more visible. | As Robert pointed out to me once (hi Robert), SAGE-AU is not actually | affiliated with the US USENIX/SAGE. This probably gives them a greater | deal of independence, and also makes it easier for new users to join | given that the membership fee is likely lower. Not that I mind paying | for a USENIX membership -- I was a USENIX member before I was a SAGE | member and I find both organizations very beneficial -- but I imagine | that for many SA's, having to pay for something that they perceive as | "irrelevant" (i.e. USENIX) is a big barrier to getting more people to | join SAGE. Not everyone is aware of this, but the SAGE and USENIX memberships have recently been de-coupled - you no longer need to be a USENIX member to be a SAGE member. More details and how to join are here: http://www.usenix.org/membership/application.html Cheers! John jsellens@generalconcepts.com / jsellens@sage.org From adrian@enfusion-group.com Thu Oct 02 17:36:02 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: gtasage.org-gtasage-members@gtasage.org Received: (qmail 20795 invoked by uid 1004); 2 Oct 2003 13:36:02 -0400 Received: from adrian@enfusion-group.com by enfusion-group.com with qmail-scanner; 02 Oct 2003 17:36:02 -0000 Received: from smtp-auth.enfusion-group.com (216.220.40.201) by enfusion-group.com with SMTP id smtpdKVMk1Z; Thu, 02 Oct 2003 13:35:55 EDT Received: from enfusion-group.com (CPE0080c857bec4-CM014320002429.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com [24.102.49.105]) by smtp-auth.enfusion-group.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B22F631 for ; Thu, 2 Oct 2003 13:35:54 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 2582 invoked by uid 500); 2 Oct 2003 13:35:48 -0400 From: Adrian Chung To: gtasage-members@gtasage.org Subject: Re: [gtaSAGE-members] Re: SAGE and SAGE-AU Message-ID: <20031002173550.GC2268@enfusion-group.com> Mail-Followup-To: gtasage-members@gtasage.org References: <200310021646.h92Gk5ip054644@localhost.generalconcepts.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <200310021646.h92Gk5ip054644@localhost.generalconcepts.com> User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.1i X-Operating-System: Linux 2.4.22 i686 Organization: Enfusion Group Sender: gtasage-members-admin@gtasage.org Errors-To: gtasage-members-admin@gtasage.org X-BeenThere: gtasage-members@gtasage.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: aligning system and network administrators in the greater Toronto area. List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu Oct 2 13:37:01 2003 X-Original-Date: Thu, 2 Oct 2003 13:35:48 -0400 On Thu, Oct 02, 2003 at 12:46:05PM -0400, John Sellens wrote: [...] > Not everyone is aware of this, but the SAGE and USENIX memberships > have recently been de-coupled - you no longer need to be a USENIX > member to be a SAGE member. More details and how to join are here: > http://www.usenix.org/membership/application.html That's great news, I wasn't aware of this. I think this definitely lowers the barrier to entry for lots of people who may have otherwise been disuaded by the price of having to obtain a USENIX *plus* SAGE membership. -- Adrian Chung (adrian at enfusion-group dot com) http://www.enfusion-group.com/~adrian/ GPG Fingerprint: C620 C8EA 86BA 79CC 384C E7BE A10C 353B 919D 1A17 [rogue.genosha.enfusion-group.com] 1:34pm up 10:41, 1 user, load average: 0.00 From jsellens@generalconcepts.com Thu Oct 02 17:37:53 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: gtasage.org-gtasage-members@gtasage.org Received: (qmail 20955 invoked by uid 1004); 2 Oct 2003 13:37:52 -0400 Received: from jsellens@generalconcepts.com by enfusion-group.com with qmail-scanner; 02 Oct 2003 17:37:52 -0000 Received: from UNKNOWN (209.250.142.227, claiming to be "localhost.generalconcepts.com") by enfusion-group.com with SMTP id smtpdHpTk9H; Thu, 02 Oct 2003 13:37:46 EDT Received: from localhost.generalconcepts.com (localhost.generalconcepts.com [127.0.0.1]) by localhost.generalconcepts.com (8.12.8p2/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h92HbeV3057765 for ; Thu, 2 Oct 2003 13:37:40 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from jsellens@localhost.generalconcepts.com) Received: (from jsellens@localhost) by localhost.generalconcepts.com (8.12.8p2/8.12.8/Submit) id h92HbdLu057764 for gtasage-members@gtasage.org; Thu, 2 Oct 2003 13:37:39 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from jsellens) Message-Id: <200310021737.h92HbdLu057764@localhost.generalconcepts.com> From: John Sellens To: gtasage-members@gtasage.org Subject: Re: [gtaSAGE-members] the LISA conference is coming up soon .... Sender: gtasage-members-admin@gtasage.org Errors-To: gtasage-members-admin@gtasage.org X-BeenThere: gtasage-members@gtasage.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: aligning system and network administrators in the greater Toronto area. List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu Oct 2 13:57:01 2003 X-Original-Date: Thu, 2 Oct 2003 13:37:39 -0400 (EDT) I've been fortunate to attend LISA fairly regularly over the years. The first time I went was in 1991, when I presented a paper. That meant free registration, and my employer at the time (the University of Waterloo) covered the other expenses. I've been to all but a couple since then, through multiple jobs, and a couple of employers. Our company (Certainty Solutions) is primarily a company of system administrators, aiming to provide high level services. While the current economic challenges have had an impact, we have long been believers in and supporters of SAGE/USENIX, and try to get people involved and attending as much as possible. The most commonly expressed reasons for going to LISA are - meeting people who can help you learn, or share experiences ("the hallway track") - the tutorials - which are intended to be technical and accessible, and cover a variety of topics and skill levels - the technical program, which focuses on real, practical tools USENIX tries to move LISA around from place to place, but there are restrictions on where (due to the nature of the conference and the hotel requirements), and USENIX does try to make it as affordable as possible. It is US-based, which does make it more of a challenge for us foreigners. I have driven to USENIX and LISA conferences several times - Boston, Baltimore, Nashville, and Chicago and Cincinatti were also driveable. I think there was a mention of the conference fee being "exhorbitant". I think I would disagree with that, based on comparisons with other conferences of similar quality (not that there are many). But with the CAN/US exchange factored in, it is a little more daunting. The tutorials are reasonably priced (modulo CAN/US) compared to other training possibilities. There are ways to get discounted registrations for students, presenters, volunteers, etc. But that's not always feasible for everyone. I know quite a few people that attend LISA regularly - more US residents than Canadian residents though. Operations people vs "engineering"/architecture people and LISA: I think both groups can benefit from LISA, though "point and click" operators may get less out of it. There are lots of things there to learn at most levels of expertise. You can get various introductory training courses locally, but (IMHO) not typically as deep or as broad. This is kind of rambling - sorry. Cheers! John From robert@timetraveller.org Thu Oct 02 18:03:44 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: gtasage.org-gtasage-members@gtasage.org Received: (qmail 21892 invoked by uid 1004); 2 Oct 2003 14:03:44 -0400 Received: from robert@timetraveller.org by enfusion-group.com with qmail-scanner; 02 Oct 2003 18:03:44 -0000 Received: from blake.timetraveller.org (203.23.43.10) by enfusion-group.com with SMTP id smtpdc8Czg8; Thu, 02 Oct 2003 14:03:35 EDT Received: from zen.canint.timetraveller.org (CPE00105ae6b1e1-CM000039aeec61.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com [63.139.6.84]) by blake.timetraveller.org (8.12.3/8.12.3) with ESMTP id h92I3MIa018239 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=OK); Fri, 3 Oct 2003 04:03:26 +1000 Received: from zen.canint.timetraveller.org (zen.canint.timetraveller.org [192.168.120.1]) by zen.canint.timetraveller.org (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h92I35hm030753; Thu, 2 Oct 2003 14:03:05 -0400 From: Robert Brockway X-X-Sender: robert@zen.canint.timetraveller.org To: Adrian Chung cc: gtasage-members@gtasage.org Subject: Re: [gtaSAGE-members] Re: SAGE and SAGE-AU In-Reply-To: <20031002173550.GC2268@enfusion-group.com> Message-ID: References: <200310021646.h92Gk5ip054644@localhost.generalconcepts.com> <20031002173550.GC2268@enfusion-group.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: gtasage-members-admin@gtasage.org Errors-To: gtasage-members-admin@gtasage.org X-BeenThere: gtasage-members@gtasage.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: aligning system and network administrators in the greater Toronto area. List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu Oct 2 14:04:01 2003 X-Original-Date: Thu, 2 Oct 2003 14:03:05 -0400 (EDT) On Thu, 2 Oct 2003, Adrian Chung wrote: > That's great news, I wasn't aware of this. I think this definitely > lowers the barrier to entry for lots of people who may have otherwise > been disuaded by the price of having to obtain a USENIX *plus* SAGE > membership. Definately. As soon as I learned this (a few weeks ago) I tried to join SAGE without joining USENIX but unfortunately the online joining process blocks an attempt to join only SAGE. I reported the problem and they reported that they were aware of the problem and are planning to change the online signup page. Until then I'd have to join via snail mail or fax which I haven't gotten around to :) Rob -- Robert Brockway B.Sc. email: robert@timetraveller.org, zzbrock@uqconnect.net Linux counter project ID #16440 (http://counter.li.org) "The earth is but one country and mankind its citizens" -Baha'u'llah From adrian@enfusion-group.com Tue Dec 30 01:10:10 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: gtasage.org-gtasage-members@gtasage.org Received: (qmail 7214 invoked by uid 1004); 29 Dec 2003 20:10:10 -0500 Received: from adrian@enfusion-group.com by enfusion-group.com with qmail-scanner; 30 Dec 2003 01:10:10 -0000 Received: from smtp-auth.enfusion-group.com (216.220.40.201) by enfusion-group.com with SMTP id smtpdRE4omq; Mon, 29 Dec 2003 20:10:05 EST Received: from beast.genosha.enfusion-group.com (genosha.enfusion-group.com [66.11.164.57]) (using TLSv1 with cipher RC4-MD5 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by smtp-auth.enfusion-group.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C032E1F for ; Mon, 29 Dec 2003 20:10:04 -0500 (EST) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5.6944.0 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-ID: <640BECB0D879C644B927897D184D110A08D02D@beast.genosha.enfusion-group.com> X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: Unsubscription notices. Thread-Index: AcPOcaenr5WRcJOnTXCGgeVV4vxZYA== From: "Adrian Chung" To: Subject: [gtaSAGE-members] Unsubscription notices. Sender: gtasage-members-admin@gtasage.org Errors-To: gtasage-members-admin@gtasage.org X-BeenThere: gtasage-members@gtasage.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: aligning system and network administrators in the greater Toronto area. List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon Dec 29 20:11:02 2003 X-Original-Date: Mon, 29 Dec 2003 20:10:03 -0500 :) Sorry about that, I'm just in the process of moving the list to a new server, and in testing, did something I shouldn't have. -- Adrian Chung (adrian at enfusion-group dot com) http://www.enfusion-group.com/~adrian/ GPG Fingerprint: C620 C8EA 86BA 79CC 384C E7BE A10C 353B 919D 1A17 From nobody Tue Apr 27 15:08:36 2004 Return-Path: Received: from localhost (pyro.enfusion-group.com [127.0.0.1]) by pyro.enfusion-group.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E7219E7938 for ; Tue, 27 Apr 2004 15:08:34 -0400 (EDT) Received: from beast.genosha.enfusion-group.com (genosha.enfusion-group.com [66.11.164.57]) (using TLSv1 with cipher RC4-MD5 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by pyro.enfusion-group.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id AE38BE78FB for ; Tue, 27 Apr 2004 15:08:34 -0400 (EDT) Received: from rogue ([192.168.100.10]) by beast.genosha.enfusion-group.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.6713); Tue, 27 Apr 2004 15:08:34 -0400 Received: from adrian by rogue with local (Exim 3.36 #1 (Debian)) id 1BIXwY-0003sZ-00 for ; Tue, 27 Apr 2004 15:08:34 -0400 Date: Tue, 27 Apr 2004 15:08:34 -0400 From: Adrian Chung To: gtasage-members@gtasage.org Message-ID: <20040427190834.GB14684@enfusion-group.com> Mail-Followup-To: gtasage-members@gtasage.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline X-Operating-System: Linux 2.6.4 i686 Organization: Enfusion Group User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.5.1+cvs20040105i X-OriginalArrivalTime: 27 Apr 2004 19:08:34.0457 (UTC) FILETIME=[097E6090:01C42C8B] X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS snapshot-20020222 Subject: [gtaSAGE-members] testing X-BeenThere: gtasage-members@gtasage.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list List-Id: aligning system and network administrators in the greater Toronto area. List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 27 Apr 2004 19:08:35 -0000 asdlkfjasdf -- Adrian Chung (adrian at enfusion-group dot com) http://www.enfusion-group.com/~adrian/ GPG Fingerprint: C620 C8EA 86BA 79CC 384C E7BE A10C 353B 919D 1A17 [rogue] up 3 days, 30 min, 8 users From nobody Tue Apr 27 15:11:37 2004 Return-Path: Received: from localhost (pyro.enfusion-group.com [127.0.0.1]) by pyro.enfusion-group.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 17D7CE7938 for ; Tue, 27 Apr 2004 15:11:37 -0400 (EDT) Received: from dhaame.pair.com (dhaame.pair.com [209.68.1.163]) by pyro.enfusion-group.com (Postfix) with SMTP id D521CE78FB for ; Tue, 27 Apr 2004 15:11:36 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 28436 invoked by uid 65534); 27 Apr 2004 19:11:36 -0000 Received: from 216.220.35.2 ([216.220.35.2]) (SquirrelMail authenticated user duane) by webmail.bedeau.ca with HTTP; Tue, 27 Apr 2004 15:11:36 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <18569.216.220.35.2.1083093096.squirrel@webmail.bedeau.ca> Date: Tue, 27 Apr 2004 15:11:36 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Re: [gtaSAGE-members] testing From: "Duane Bedeau" To: gtasage-members@gtasage.org In-Reply-To: <20040427190834.GB14684@enfusion-group.com> References: <20040427190834.GB14684@enfusion-group.com> X-Mailer: SquirrelMail (version 1.0.6) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS snapshot-20020222 X-BeenThere: gtasage-members@gtasage.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list List-Id: aligning system and network administrators in the greater Toronto area. List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 27 Apr 2004 19:11:37 -0000 > asdlkfjasdf > Was this a mistake? Or a Virus?? From nobody Tue Apr 27 15:15:48 2004 Return-Path: Received: from localhost (pyro.enfusion-group.com [127.0.0.1]) by pyro.enfusion-group.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 896B1E7938 for ; Tue, 27 Apr 2004 15:15:47 -0400 (EDT) Received: from beast.genosha.enfusion-group.com (genosha.enfusion-group.com [66.11.164.57]) (using TLSv1 with cipher RC4-MD5 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by pyro.enfusion-group.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 53DE7E78FB for ; Tue, 27 Apr 2004 15:15:47 -0400 (EDT) Received: from rogue ([192.168.100.10]) by beast.genosha.enfusion-group.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.6713); Tue, 27 Apr 2004 15:15:46 -0400 Received: from adrian by rogue with local (Exim 3.36 #1 (Debian)) id 1BIY3W-0003tm-00 for ; Tue, 27 Apr 2004 15:15:46 -0400 Date: Tue, 27 Apr 2004 15:15:46 -0400 From: Adrian Chung To: gtasage-members@gtasage.org Subject: Re: [gtaSAGE-members] testing Message-ID: <20040427191546.GE14684@enfusion-group.com> Mail-Followup-To: gtasage-members@gtasage.org References: <20040427190834.GB14684@enfusion-group.com> <18569.216.220.35.2.1083093096.squirrel@webmail.bedeau.ca> <20040427151204.D67831@spike.snickers.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20040427151204.D67831@spike.snickers.org> X-Operating-System: Linux 2.6.4 i686 Organization: Enfusion Group User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.5.1+cvs20040105i X-OriginalArrivalTime: 27 Apr 2004 19:15:46.0997 (UTC) FILETIME=[0B4EBE50:01C42C8C] X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS snapshot-20020222 X-BeenThere: gtasage-members@gtasage.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list List-Id: aligning system and network administrators in the greater Toronto area. List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 27 Apr 2004 19:15:47 -0000 On Tue, Apr 27, 2004 at 03:12:35PM -0400, Jon Nistor wrote: > mistake, virii usually has something in reference to viagra. Sorry about that, mistake. -- Adrian Chung (adrian at enfusion-group dot com) http://www.enfusion-group.com/~adrian/ GPG Fingerprint: C620 C8EA 86BA 79CC 384C E7BE A10C 353B 919D 1A17 [rogue] up 3 days, 36 min, 8 users From nobody Tue Apr 27 15:27:23 2004 Return-Path: Received: from localhost (pyro.enfusion-group.com [127.0.0.1]) by pyro.enfusion-group.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A513FE7938 for ; Tue, 27 Apr 2004 15:27:21 -0400 (EDT) Received: from blake.timetraveller.org (unknown [203.23.43.10]) (using TLSv1 with cipher EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA (168/168 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by pyro.enfusion-group.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 43AA0E78FB for ; Tue, 27 Apr 2004 15:27:20 -0400 (EDT) Received: from zen.timetraveller.org (CPE00105ae6b1e1-CM000039aeec61.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com [69.194.186.206]) by blake.timetraveller.org (8.12.3/8.12.3) with ESMTP id i3RJR2Wp024859 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=OK) for ; Wed, 28 Apr 2004 05:27:06 +1000 Received: from zen.timetraveller.org (zen.timetraveller.org [192.168.120.2]) by zen.timetraveller.org (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id i3RJR1fc028967 for ; Tue, 27 Apr 2004 15:27:01 -0400 Date: Tue, 27 Apr 2004 15:27:01 -0400 (EDT) From: Robert Brockway To: gtasage-members@gtasage.org Subject: Re: [gtaSAGE-members] testing In-Reply-To: <18569.216.220.35.2.1083093096.squirrel@webmail.bedeau.ca> Message-ID: References: <20040427190834.GB14684@enfusion-group.com> <18569.216.220.35.2.1083093096.squirrel@webmail.bedeau.ca> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS snapshot-20020222 X-BeenThere: gtasage-members@gtasage.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list List-Id: aligning system and network administrators in the greater Toronto area. List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 27 Apr 2004 19:27:21 -0000 On Tue, 27 Apr 2004, Duane Bedeau wrote: > > > asdlkfjasdf > > > > Was this a mistake? Or a Virus?? I tried to decrypt it. I tried rot13 but no luck so far. Rob -- Robert Brockway B.Sc. email: robert@timetraveller.org, rbrockway@uqconnect.net Linux counter project ID #16440 (http://counter.li.org) "The earth is but one country and mankind its citizens" -Baha'u'llah From nobody Tue Apr 27 15:31:52 2004 Return-Path: Received: from localhost (pyro.enfusion-group.com [127.0.0.1]) by pyro.enfusion-group.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1DA6AE7938 for ; Tue, 27 Apr 2004 15:31:51 -0400 (EDT) Received: from beast.genosha.enfusion-group.com (genosha.enfusion-group.com [66.11.164.57]) (using TLSv1 with cipher RC4-MD5 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by pyro.enfusion-group.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D5B0AE78FB for ; Tue, 27 Apr 2004 15:31:50 -0400 (EDT) Received: from rogue ([192.168.100.10]) by beast.genosha.enfusion-group.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.6713); Tue, 27 Apr 2004 15:31:50 -0400 Received: from adrian by rogue with local (Exim 3.36 #1 (Debian)) id 1BIYJ4-0003v4-00 for ; Tue, 27 Apr 2004 15:31:50 -0400 Date: Tue, 27 Apr 2004 15:31:50 -0400 From: Adrian Chung To: gtasage-members@gtasage.org Message-ID: <20040427193150.GF14684@enfusion-group.com> Mail-Followup-To: gtasage-members@gtasage.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline X-Operating-System: Linux 2.6.4 i686 Organization: Enfusion Group User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.5.1+cvs20040105i X-OriginalArrivalTime: 27 Apr 2004 19:31:50.0520 (UTC) FILETIME=[499CAF80:01C42C8E] X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS snapshot-20020222 Subject: [gtaSAGE-members] Job scene in TO. X-BeenThere: gtasage-members@gtasage.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list List-Id: aligning system and network administrators in the greater Toronto area. List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 27 Apr 2004 19:31:51 -0000 So it's been a while since there's been any traffic, but I thought I'd ask: How's the job scene looking for people either looking for work, or keeping their eyes open in Toronto? Seemingly picking up? Anyone have any positions to fill? Anyone looking for work? -- Adrian Chung (adrian at enfusion-group dot com) http://www.enfusion-group.com/~adrian/ GPG Fingerprint: C620 C8EA 86BA 79CC 384C E7BE A10C 353B 919D 1A17 [rogue] up 3 days, 52 min, 8 users From nobody Tue Apr 27 15:38:54 2004 Return-Path: Received: from localhost (pyro.enfusion-group.com [127.0.0.1]) by pyro.enfusion-group.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 80B6CE799D for ; Tue, 27 Apr 2004 15:38:53 -0400 (EDT) Received: from aphrodite.aquezada.com (acf.tor.istop.com [66.11.182.92]) by pyro.enfusion-group.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4E77CE7938 for ; Tue, 27 Apr 2004 15:38:53 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by aphrodite.aquezada.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id AB75AFE90 for ; Tue, 27 Apr 2004 15:38:52 -0400 (EDT) Received: from aphrodite.aquezada.com ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (aphrodite.acf.aquezada.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with LMTP id 55661-01-7 for ; Tue, 27 Apr 2004 15:38:41 -0400 (EDT) Received: by aphrodite.aquezada.com (Postfix, from userid 1001) id 73981FE8B; Tue, 27 Apr 2004 15:38:41 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by aphrodite.aquezada.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7252DFE43 for ; Tue, 27 Apr 2004 15:38:41 -0400 (EDT) Date: Tue, 27 Apr 2004 15:38:37 -0400 (EDT) From: "Julian C. Dunn" X-X-Sender: jdunn@aphrodite.acf.aquezada.com To: gtasage-members@gtasage.org Subject: Re: [gtaSAGE-members] testing In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20040427153748.X78547@aphrodite.acf.aquezada.com> References: <20040427190834.GB14684@enfusion-group.com> <18569.216.220.35.2.1083093096.squirrel@webmail.bedeau.ca> Organization: Aquezada Productions MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at aquezada.com X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS snapshot-20020222 X-BeenThere: gtasage-members@gtasage.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list List-Id: aligning system and network administrators in the greater Toronto area. List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 27 Apr 2004 19:38:53 -0000 -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On Tue, 27 Apr 2004, Robert Brockway wrote: > > > asdlkfjasdf > > > > > > > Was this a mistake? Or a Virus?? > > I tried to decrypt it. I tried rot13 but no luck so far. Qba'g lbh whfg ybir ubj "grfg" zrffntrf nyjnlf trarengr 5k gur genssvp bs gur bevtvany? - - Julian [ Julian C. Dunn * ] [ WWW: www.aquezada.com/staff/julian/ * www.dreaming.org/~julian/ ] [ PGP: 0xFDC205B9 - 91B3 7A9D 683C 7C16 715F 442C 6065 D533 FDC2 05B9 ] [ "sometimes you win, sometimes you lose / and most times ] [ you choose between the two" - carole king, "sweet seasons" ] -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.4 (FreeBSD) iD8DBQFAjrbBYGXVM/3CBbkRAiZRAKCk4bXAW7eq0mGa/euxABaT4getlACfXBme 6Lmo58ZI130DJU7gVxtV++E= =Zn7P -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From nobody Tue Apr 27 15:59:18 2004 Return-Path: Received: from localhost (pyro.enfusion-group.com [127.0.0.1]) by pyro.enfusion-group.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0AE90E799D for ; Tue, 27 Apr 2004 15:59:16 -0400 (EDT) Received: from spike.snickers.org (snickers.org [66.199.180.250]) (using TLSv1 with cipher EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA (168/168 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by pyro.enfusion-group.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id CE87AE7938 for ; Tue, 27 Apr 2004 15:59:15 -0400 (EDT) Received: by spike.snickers.org (Postfix, from userid 1000) id 1EDCBFA1B; Tue, 27 Apr 2004 15:59:16 -0400 (EDT) Date: Tue, 27 Apr 2004 15:59:16 -0400 (EDT) From: Jon Nistor To: Adrian Chung Subject: Re: [gtaSAGE-members] Job scene in TO. In-Reply-To: <20040427193150.GF14684@enfusion-group.com> Message-ID: <20040427155816.E69726@spike.snickers.org> References: <20040427193150.GF14684@enfusion-group.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS snapshot-20020222 Cc: gtasage-members@gtasage.org X-BeenThere: gtasage-members@gtasage.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list List-Id: aligning system and network administrators in the greater Toronto area. List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 27 Apr 2004 19:59:16 -0000 My grandmother is looking for some work, shes 92 and has read Cisco docs on VOIP; shes very confident and a nice pleasant person to work with, will school ppl in OSPF as well, anyone hiring? On Tue, 27 Apr 2004, Adrian Chung wrote: ||So it's been a while since there's been any traffic, but I thought I'd ||ask: || ||How's the job scene looking for people either looking for work, or ||keeping their eyes open in Toronto? || ||Seemingly picking up? Anyone have any positions to fill? Anyone ||looking for work? || ||-- ||Adrian Chung (adrian at enfusion-group dot com) ||http://www.enfusion-group.com/~adrian/ ||GPG Fingerprint: C620 C8EA 86BA 79CC 384C E7BE A10C 353B 919D 1A17 ||[rogue] up 3 days, 52 min, 8 users || ||_______________________________________________ ||gtaSAGE-members mailing list ||gtaSAGE-members@gtasage.org ||http://lists.enfusion-group.com/mailman/listinfo/gtasage-members || ________ Jon (nistor@snickers.org) - iooooio.iioooiii.ioiioioo.iiiiioio : EOF : From nobody Tue Apr 27 16:23:32 2004 Return-Path: Received: from localhost (pyro.enfusion-group.com [127.0.0.1]) by pyro.enfusion-group.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 49BBEE799A for ; Tue, 27 Apr 2004 16:23:31 -0400 (EDT) Received: from beast.genosha.enfusion-group.com (genosha.enfusion-group.com [66.11.164.57]) (using TLSv1 with cipher RC4-MD5 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by pyro.enfusion-group.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D1F53E7938 for ; Tue, 27 Apr 2004 16:23:30 -0400 (EDT) Received: from rogue ([192.168.100.10]) by beast.genosha.enfusion-group.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.6713); Tue, 27 Apr 2004 16:23:30 -0400 Received: from adrian by rogue with local (Exim 3.36 #1 (Debian)) id 1BIZ74-0003xt-00; Tue, 27 Apr 2004 16:23:30 -0400 Date: Tue, 27 Apr 2004 16:23:30 -0400 From: Adrian Chung To: Jon Nistor Subject: Re: [gtaSAGE-members] Job scene in TO. Message-ID: <20040427202330.GG14684@enfusion-group.com> Mail-Followup-To: Jon Nistor , gtasage-members@gtasage.org References: <20040427193150.GF14684@enfusion-group.com> <20040427155816.E69726@spike.snickers.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20040427155816.E69726@spike.snickers.org> X-Operating-System: Linux 2.6.4 i686 Organization: Enfusion Group User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.5.1+cvs20040105i X-OriginalArrivalTime: 27 Apr 2004 20:23:30.0532 (UTC) FILETIME=[815CFA40:01C42C95] X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS snapshot-20020222 Cc: gtasage-members@gtasage.org X-BeenThere: gtasage-members@gtasage.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list List-Id: aligning system and network administrators in the greater Toronto area. List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 27 Apr 2004 20:23:31 -0000 On Tue, Apr 27, 2004 at 03:59:16PM -0400, Jon Nistor wrote: > My grandmother is looking for some work, shes 92 and has read Cisco > docs on VOIP; shes very confident and a nice pleasant person to work > with, will school ppl in OSPF as well, anyone hiring? 92 huh? Surely she's actually got some work experience too? -- Adrian Chung (adrian at enfusion-group dot com) http://www.enfusion-group.com/~adrian/ GPG Fingerprint: C620 C8EA 86BA 79CC 384C E7BE A10C 353B 919D 1A17 [rogue] up 3 days, 1:44, 8 users From nobody Tue Apr 27 16:26:34 2004 Return-Path: Received: from localhost (pyro.enfusion-group.com [127.0.0.1]) by pyro.enfusion-group.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 859B9E7938 for ; Tue, 27 Apr 2004 16:26:33 -0400 (EDT) Received: from spike.snickers.org (snickers.org [66.199.180.250]) (using TLSv1 with cipher EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA (168/168 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by pyro.enfusion-group.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4FD7AE799A for ; Tue, 27 Apr 2004 16:26:33 -0400 (EDT) Received: by spike.snickers.org (Postfix, from userid 1000) id A45E1FA47; Tue, 27 Apr 2004 16:26:33 -0400 (EDT) Date: Tue, 27 Apr 2004 16:26:33 -0400 (EDT) From: Jon Nistor To: Adrian Chung Subject: Re: [gtaSAGE-members] Job scene in TO. In-Reply-To: <20040427202330.GG14684@enfusion-group.com> Message-ID: <20040427162601.B71319@spike.snickers.org> References: <20040427193150.GF14684@enfusion-group.com> <20040427155816.E69726@spike.snickers.org> <20040427202330.GG14684@enfusion-group.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS snapshot-20020222 Cc: gtasage-members@gtasage.org X-BeenThere: gtasage-members@gtasage.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list List-Id: aligning system and network administrators in the greater Toronto area. List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 27 Apr 2004 20:26:33 -0000 Yes, knitting and tagging my underwear when I was younger. They should not discriminate against age! On Tue, 27 Apr 2004, Adrian Chung wrote: ||On Tue, Apr 27, 2004 at 03:59:16PM -0400, Jon Nistor wrote: ||> My grandmother is looking for some work, shes 92 and has read Cisco ||> docs on VOIP; shes very confident and a nice pleasant person to work ||> with, will school ppl in OSPF as well, anyone hiring? || ||92 huh? Surely she's actually got some work experience too? || ||-- ||Adrian Chung (adrian at enfusion-group dot com) ||http://www.enfusion-group.com/~adrian/ ||GPG Fingerprint: C620 C8EA 86BA 79CC 384C E7BE A10C 353B 919D 1A17 ||[rogue] up 3 days, 1:44, 8 users || ||_______________________________________________ ||gtaSAGE-members mailing list ||gtaSAGE-members@gtasage.org ||http://lists.enfusion-group.com/mailman/listinfo/gtasage-members || ________ Jon (nistor@snickers.org) - iooooio.iioooiii.ioiioioo.iiiiioio : EOF : From nobody Tue Apr 27 16:46:03 2004 Return-Path: Received: from localhost (pyro.enfusion-group.com [127.0.0.1]) by pyro.enfusion-group.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E8ACDE799A for ; Tue, 27 Apr 2004 16:46:02 -0400 (EDT) Received: from blake.timetraveller.org (unknown [203.23.43.10]) (using TLSv1 with cipher EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA (168/168 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by pyro.enfusion-group.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 838B5E7938 for ; Tue, 27 Apr 2004 16:46:01 -0400 (EDT) Received: from zen.timetraveller.org (CPE00105ae6b1e1-CM000039aeec61.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com [69.194.186.206]) by blake.timetraveller.org (8.12.3/8.12.3) with ESMTP id i3RKjhWp026267 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=OK) for ; Wed, 28 Apr 2004 06:45:47 +1000 Received: from zen.timetraveller.org (zen.timetraveller.org [192.168.120.2]) by zen.timetraveller.org (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id i3RKjeNV031163 for ; Tue, 27 Apr 2004 16:45:42 -0400 Date: Tue, 27 Apr 2004 16:45:40 -0400 (EDT) From: Robert Brockway To: gtasage-members@gtasage.org Subject: Re: [gtaSAGE-members] testing In-Reply-To: <20040427153748.X78547@aphrodite.acf.aquezada.com> Message-ID: References: <20040427190834.GB14684@enfusion-group.com> <18569.216.220.35.2.1083093096.squirrel@webmail.bedeau.ca> <20040427153748.X78547@aphrodite.acf.aquezada.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS snapshot-20020222 X-BeenThere: gtasage-members@gtasage.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list List-Id: aligning system and network administrators in the greater Toronto area. List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 27 Apr 2004 20:46:03 -0000 On Tue, 27 Apr 2004, Julian C. Dunn wrote: > Qba'g lbh whfg ybir ubj "grfg" zrffntrf nyjnlf trarengr 5k gur genssvp bs > gur bevtvany? Gung'f cneg bs gur sha V guvax. Npghnyyl V whfg jnag gb nqq fbzr zber grkg fb gung zl ebg guvegrra rssbeg ybbxf zber rkgrafvir guna vg ernyyl vf. Qvq lbh abgvpr gung V fcryg bhg guvegrra? Gung vf fb gur qvtvgf bar naq guerr qba'g nccrne va gur bhgchg. V guvax gur ebg plcure fubhyq unir qbar fbzrguvat zber vagrerfgvat jvgu ahzoref. Ebo From nobody Tue Apr 27 16:47:53 2004 Return-Path: Received: from localhost (pyro.enfusion-group.com [127.0.0.1]) by pyro.enfusion-group.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A2CA2E799D for ; Tue, 27 Apr 2004 16:47:51 -0400 (EDT) Received: from beast.genosha.enfusion-group.com (genosha.enfusion-group.com [66.11.164.57]) (using TLSv1 with cipher RC4-MD5 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by pyro.enfusion-group.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6D22DE7938 for ; Tue, 27 Apr 2004 16:47:51 -0400 (EDT) Received: from rogue ([192.168.100.10]) by beast.genosha.enfusion-group.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.6713); Tue, 27 Apr 2004 16:47:51 -0400 Received: from adrian by rogue with local (Exim 3.36 #1 (Debian)) id 1BIZUd-0003zU-00; Tue, 27 Apr 2004 16:47:51 -0400 Date: Tue, 27 Apr 2004 16:47:51 -0400 From: Adrian Chung To: "Julian C. Dunn" Subject: Re: [gtaSAGE-members] testing Message-ID: <20040427204750.GH14684@enfusion-group.com> Mail-Followup-To: "Julian C. Dunn" , gtasage-members@gtasage.org References: <20040427190834.GB14684@enfusion-group.com> <18569.216.220.35.2.1083093096.squirrel@webmail.bedeau.ca> <20040427153748.X78547@aphrodite.acf.aquezada.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20040427153748.X78547@aphrodite.acf.aquezada.com> X-Operating-System: Linux 2.6.4 i686 Organization: Enfusion Group User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.5.1+cvs20040105i X-OriginalArrivalTime: 27 Apr 2004 20:47:51.0160 (UTC) FILETIME=[E7F71F80:01C42C98] X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS snapshot-20020222 Cc: gtasage-members@gtasage.org X-BeenThere: gtasage-members@gtasage.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list List-Id: aligning system and network administrators in the greater Toronto area. List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 27 Apr 2004 20:47:51 -0000 On Tue, Apr 27, 2004 at 03:38:37PM -0400, Julian C. Dunn wrote: > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- > Hash: SHA1 > > On Tue, 27 Apr 2004, Robert Brockway wrote: > > > > > asdlkfjasdf > > > > > > > > > > Was this a mistake? Or a Virus?? > > > > I tried to decrypt it. I tried rot13 but no luck so far. > > Don't you just love how "test" messages always generate 5x the > traffic of the original? Well, at least I know that the list is working. :) -- Adrian Chung (adrian at enfusion-group dot com) http://www.enfusion-group.com/~adrian/ GPG Fingerprint: C620 C8EA 86BA 79CC 384C E7BE A10C 353B 919D 1A17 [rogue] up 3 days, 2:08, 8 users From nobody Tue Apr 27 17:02:51 2004 Return-Path: Received: from localhost (pyro.enfusion-group.com [127.0.0.1]) by pyro.enfusion-group.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 123DFE799A for ; Tue, 27 Apr 2004 17:02:50 -0400 (EDT) Received: from blake.timetraveller.org (unknown [203.23.43.10]) (using TLSv1 with cipher EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA (168/168 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by pyro.enfusion-group.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9DD99E78FB for ; Tue, 27 Apr 2004 17:02:48 -0400 (EDT) Received: from zen.timetraveller.org (CPE00105ae6b1e1-CM000039aeec61.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com [69.194.186.206]) by blake.timetraveller.org (8.12.3/8.12.3) with ESMTP id i3RL2VWp026543 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=OK) for ; Wed, 28 Apr 2004 07:02:34 +1000 Received: from zen.timetraveller.org (zen.timetraveller.org [192.168.120.2]) by zen.timetraveller.org (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id i3RL2TWp031594 for ; Tue, 27 Apr 2004 17:02:29 -0400 Date: Tue, 27 Apr 2004 17:02:29 -0400 (EDT) From: Robert Brockway To: gtasage-members@gtasage.org Subject: Re: [gtaSAGE-members] testing In-Reply-To: <20040427204750.GH14684@enfusion-group.com> Message-ID: References: <20040427190834.GB14684@enfusion-group.com> <18569.216.220.35.2.1083093096.squirrel@webmail.bedeau.ca> <20040427153748.X78547@aphrodite.acf.aquezada.com> <20040427204750.GH14684@enfusion-group.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS snapshot-20020222 X-BeenThere: gtasage-members@gtasage.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list List-Id: aligning system and network administrators in the greater Toronto area. List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 27 Apr 2004 21:02:50 -0000 On Tue, 27 Apr 2004, Adrian Chung wrote: > Well, at least I know that the list is working. :) Yeah I think we just didn't have anything to say :) On the plus side I finally joined SAGE (as well as renewing my SAGE-AU membership). SAGE-WISE has the coolest name though. Rob -- Robert Brockway B.Sc. email: robert@timetraveller.org, rbrockway@uqconnect.net Linux counter project ID #16440 (http://counter.li.org) "The earth is but one country and mankind its citizens" -Baha'u'llah From nobody Tue Apr 27 21:05:42 2004 Return-Path: Received: from localhost (pyro.enfusion-group.com [127.0.0.1]) by pyro.enfusion-group.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 32A6BE799D for ; Tue, 27 Apr 2004 21:05:41 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mail35.megamailservers.com (mail35.megamailservers.com [216.251.36.35]) (using TLSv1 with cipher EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA (168/168 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by pyro.enfusion-group.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id EE9F8E78FB for ; Tue, 27 Apr 2004 21:05:40 -0400 (EDT) X-Authenticated-User: gsarak.sarakinovconsulting.com X-POP-User: gsarak.sarakinovconsulting.com Received: from rogue.sarakinovconsulting.com (mrsw1.dbugz.com [216.138.206.126] (may be forged)) (authenticated bits=0) by mail35.megamailservers.com (8.12.10/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i3S15d8X018375 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO); Tue, 27 Apr 2004 21:05:39 -0400 Subject: Re: [gtaSAGE-members] Job scene in TO. From: Goni Sarakinov To: Adrian Chung In-Reply-To: <20040427193150.GF14684@enfusion-group.com> References: <20040427193150.GF14684@enfusion-group.com> Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="=-LLbt5vOJLZ8Gq1+sYnCe" Organization: Sarakinov Consulting Inc Message-Id: <1083114142.2381.13.camel@rogue.sarakinovconsulting.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Ximian Evolution 1.4.5 Date: Tue, 27 Apr 2004 21:02:23 -0400 X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS snapshot-20020222 Cc: gtasage-members@gtasage.org X-BeenThere: gtasage-members@gtasage.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list List-Id: aligning system and network administrators in the greater Toronto area. List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 28 Apr 2004 01:05:41 -0000 --=-LLbt5vOJLZ8Gq1+sYnCe Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Tue, 2004-04-27 at 15:31, Adrian Chung wrote: > So it's been a while since there's been any traffic, but I thought I'd > ask: >=20 > How's the job scene looking for people either looking for work, or > keeping their eyes open in Toronto? >=20 > Seemingly picking up? Anyone have any positions to fill? Anyone > looking for work? >=20 I'm looking for work and it seems to go in spurts, where positions are posted and then after a month or two the same positions are posted again. From what I've been able to piece together, unless the applicant has exactly what they are looking for your not going to be considered. --=20 Goni Sarakinov Sarakinov Consulting Inc. Phone: +1 416.727.6495 --=-LLbt5vOJLZ8Gq1+sYnCe Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name=signature.asc Content-Description: This is a digitally signed message part -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.2 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQBAjwKe+1n88odXlk4RAjpBAJ43TCJpXzLxx7yHvSu0staccOPHAQCfZmlq 1OnhYbxBfNtFBaX0kEqOCIw= =9GTV -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --=-LLbt5vOJLZ8Gq1+sYnCe-- From nobody Wed Apr 28 09:06:27 2004 Return-Path: Received: from localhost (pyro.enfusion-group.com [127.0.0.1]) by pyro.enfusion-group.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 54320E799A for ; Wed, 28 Apr 2004 09:06:26 -0400 (EDT) Received: from beast.genosha.enfusion-group.com (genosha.enfusion-group.com [66.11.164.57]) (using TLSv1 with cipher RC4-MD5 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by pyro.enfusion-group.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 20AD0E78FB for ; Wed, 28 Apr 2004 09:06:26 -0400 (EDT) Received: from rogue ([192.168.100.10]) by beast.genosha.enfusion-group.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.6713); Wed, 28 Apr 2004 09:06:25 -0400 Received: from adrian by rogue with local (Exim 3.36 #1 (Debian)) id 1BIold-0004qD-00 for ; Wed, 28 Apr 2004 09:06:25 -0400 Date: Wed, 28 Apr 2004 09:06:25 -0400 From: Adrian Chung To: gtasage-members@gtasage.org Subject: Re: [gtaSAGE-members] testing Message-ID: <20040428130625.GJ14684@enfusion-group.com> Mail-Followup-To: gtasage-members@gtasage.org References: <20040427190834.GB14684@enfusion-group.com> <18569.216.220.35.2.1083093096.squirrel@webmail.bedeau.ca> <20040427153748.X78547@aphrodite.acf.aquezada.com> <20040427204750.GH14684@enfusion-group.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: X-Operating-System: Linux 2.6.4 i686 Organization: Enfusion Group User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.5.1+cvs20040105i X-OriginalArrivalTime: 28 Apr 2004 13:06:25.0848 (UTC) FILETIME=[9CA58380:01C42D21] X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS snapshot-20020222 X-BeenThere: gtasage-members@gtasage.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list List-Id: aligning system and network administrators in the greater Toronto area. List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 28 Apr 2004 13:06:26 -0000 On Tue, Apr 27, 2004 at 05:02:29PM -0400, Robert Brockway wrote: [...] > On the plus side I finally joined SAGE (as well as renewing my > SAGE-AU membership). SAGE-WISE has the coolest name though. Did you join USENIX and SAGE, or just SAGE? For the first time this year, I only paid the $40 to join SAGE, but without a USENIX membership, I don't get login; anymore, which I find a really good read. Though they same to have sent me login; anyways, but I'm sure they'll change that soon. I used to be on the SAGE-WISE mailing list, but the traffic was getting to be a bit a much to me, and I was finding that some of the same items were being cross-posted to both SAGE-WISE and sage-members. I can only manage to subscribe and read *one* mailing list that has Brad Knowles as a member. ;) -- Adrian Chung (adrian at enfusion-group dot com) http://www.enfusion-group.com/~adrian/ GPG Fingerprint: C620 C8EA 86BA 79CC 384C E7BE A10C 353B 919D 1A17 [rogue] up 3 days, 18:25, 8 users From nobody Wed Apr 28 09:41:18 2004 Return-Path: Received: from localhost (pyro.enfusion-group.com [127.0.0.1]) by pyro.enfusion-group.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A8575E799A for ; Wed, 28 Apr 2004 09:41:16 -0400 (EDT) Received: from blake.timetraveller.org (unknown [203.23.43.10]) (using TLSv1 with cipher EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA (168/168 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by pyro.enfusion-group.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 34297E78FB for ; Wed, 28 Apr 2004 09:41:15 -0400 (EDT) Received: from zen.timetraveller.org (CPE00105ae6b1e1-CM000039aeec61.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com [69.194.186.206]) by blake.timetraveller.org (8.12.3/8.12.3) with ESMTP id i3SDet6h008568 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=OK) for ; Wed, 28 Apr 2004 23:41:01 +1000 Received: from zen.timetraveller.org (zen.timetraveller.org [192.168.120.2]) by zen.timetraveller.org (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id i3SDes5e028169 for ; Wed, 28 Apr 2004 09:40:54 -0400 Date: Wed, 28 Apr 2004 09:40:54 -0400 (EDT) From: Robert Brockway To: gtasage-members@gtasage.org Subject: Re: [gtaSAGE-members] testing In-Reply-To: <20040428130625.GJ14684@enfusion-group.com> Message-ID: References: <20040427190834.GB14684@enfusion-group.com> <18569.216.220.35.2.1083093096.squirrel@webmail.bedeau.ca> <20040427153748.X78547@aphrodite.acf.aquezada.com> <20040427204750.GH14684@enfusion-group.com> <20040428130625.GJ14684@enfusion-group.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS snapshot-20020222 X-BeenThere: gtasage-members@gtasage.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list List-Id: aligning system and network administrators in the greater Toronto area. List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 28 Apr 2004 13:41:16 -0000 On Wed, 28 Apr 2004, Adrian Chung wrote: > Did you join USENIX and SAGE, or just SAGE? For the first time this Just SAGE. I'll consider USENIX membership as well at some point in the future. > year, I only paid the $40 to join SAGE, but without a USENIX > membership, I don't get login; anymore, which I find a really good > read. Though they same to have sent me login; anyways, but I'm sure > they'll change that soon. Or maybe not ;) > I used to be on the SAGE-WISE mailing list, but the traffic was > getting to be a bit a much to me, and I was finding that some of the > same items were being cross-posted to both SAGE-WISE and sage-members. Interesting. SAGE-AU members never crosspost outside SAGE-AU lists. Infact after an incident in which a number of SAGE-AU members (including me) were quoted in "The Australian" without attribution or permission, any forewarding of information on SAGE-AU is supposed to only be done with the explicit permission of all contributiing authors. Rob -- Robert Brockway B.Sc. email: robert@timetraveller.org, rbrockway@uqconnect.net Linux counter project ID #16440 (http://counter.li.org) "The earth is but one country and mankind its citizens" -Baha'u'llah From nobody Thu Apr 29 03:22:42 2004 Return-Path: Received: from localhost (pyro.enfusion-group.com [127.0.0.1]) by pyro.enfusion-group.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 35F34E799A for ; Thu, 29 Apr 2004 03:22:42 -0400 (EDT) Received: from cassandra.whitefang.com (cassandra.whitefang.com [69.55.226.135]) by pyro.enfusion-group.com (Postfix) with SMTP id A459BE78FB for ; Thu, 29 Apr 2004 03:22:41 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 188 invoked from network); 29 Apr 2004 07:22:40 -0000 Received: from cassandra.whitefang.com (HELO cassandra) (69.55.226.135) by 0 with SMTP; 29 Apr 2004 07:22:40 -0000 Date: Thu, 29 Apr 2004 00:22:40 -0700 (PDT) From: Thamer Al-Harbash X-X-Sender: shadows@cassandra.whitefang.com To: Goni Sarakinov Subject: Re: [gtaSAGE-members] Job scene in TO. In-Reply-To: <1083114142.2381.13.camel@rogue.sarakinovconsulting.com> Message-ID: References: <20040427193150.GF14684@enfusion-group.com> <1083114142.2381.13.camel@rogue.sarakinovconsulting.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS snapshot-20020222 Cc: gtasage-members@gtasage.org X-BeenThere: gtasage-members@gtasage.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list List-Id: aligning system and network administrators in the greater Toronto area. List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 29 Apr 2004 07:22:42 -0000 On Tue, 27 Apr 2004, Goni Sarakinov wrote: > I'm looking for work and it seems to go in spurts, where positions are > posted and then after a month or two the same positions are posted > again. From what I've been able to piece together, unless the applicant > has exactly what they are looking for your not going to be considered. Headhunters might be picky, but usually if its a permanent position the company doing the hiring shouldn't be so picky if you have some of the experience. If all else fails start from the bottom and work your way up. Your only disadvantage is trying to start at the bottom with "too much" experience. Best of luck. -- Thamer Al-Harbash GPG Key fingerprint: D7F3 1E3B F329 8DD5 FAE3 03B1 A663 E359 D686 AA1F From nobody Thu Sep 16 13:12:12 2004 Return-Path: Received: from localhost (pyro.enfusion-group.com [127.0.0.1]) by pyro.enfusion-group.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 685FBE79D7 for ; Thu, 16 Sep 2004 13:12:11 -0400 (EDT) Received: from beast.genosha.enfusion-group.com (genosha.enfusion-group.com [66.11.164.57]) (using TLSv1 with cipher RC4-MD5 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by pyro.enfusion-group.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 15253E79C6 for ; Thu, 16 Sep 2004 13:12:11 -0400 (EDT) Received: from rogue.genosha.enfusion-group.com ([192.168.100.10]) by beast.genosha.enfusion-group.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.6713); Thu, 16 Sep 2004 13:12:10 -0400 Received: from adrian by rogue.genosha.enfusion-group.com with local (Exim 3.36 #1 (Debian)) id 1C7znm-0000wh-00 for ; Thu, 16 Sep 2004 13:12:10 -0400 Date: Thu, 16 Sep 2004 13:12:10 -0400 From: Adrian Chung To: gtasage-members@gtasage.org Message-ID: <20040916171210.GG26738@enfusion-group.com> Mail-Followup-To: gtasage-members@gtasage.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline X-Operating-System: Linux 2.6.8.1 i686 Organization: Enfusion Group User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.6+20040818i X-OriginalArrivalTime: 16 Sep 2004 17:12:10.0679 (UTC) FILETIME=[4D7EEC70:01C49C10] X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS snapshot-20020222 Subject: [gtaSAGE-members] Secondary MXs and Spam policies. X-BeenThere: gtasage-members@gtasage.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list List-Id: aligning system and network administrators in the greater Toronto area. List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 16 Sep 2004 17:12:11 -0000 [Sent this to SAGE-members as well, but thought I'd see what people are doing more locally] Just wanted to collect some opinions on secondary MX use and also how people implement spam filters: 1) Does anyone use secondary MX servers that aren't under their operational/administrative control? Is there any benefit these days to doing so, or will most MTA's queue mail for an unreachable primary for a reasonable amount of time? 2) Is it considered best practice or preference to do RBL and extensive filtering during the MTA initial session so that mail deemed as spam is dropped on the floor earlier rather than later, or queue the mail and have something more thorough check it and reject/filter/tag it later? I'm aware that having the mail queued and then rejected means that you may end up sending bounces to non-existent (or purposely crafted) forged envelope sender addresses. In the case of having secondary MXs not under your control which simply queue and forward, you lose the ability to reject mail during the SMTP session unless you check all Received headers against RBLs. My personal preference at the moment is to queue mail (even at the expense of higher resource utilization) and do more thorough checks later, than to drop things that came from an RBL-listed server at the front door. Maybe I don't have enough confidence in RBLs. -- Adrian Chung (adrian at enfusion-group dot com) http://www.enfusion-group.com/~adrian/ GPG Fingerprint: C620 C8EA 86BA 79CC 384C E7BE A10C 353B 919D 1A17 [rogue.genosha.enfusion-group.com] up 30 days, 3:00, 9 users From nobody Thu Sep 16 15:20:17 2004 Return-Path: Received: from localhost (pyro.enfusion-group.com [127.0.0.1]) by pyro.enfusion-group.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 48D26E79DF for ; Thu, 16 Sep 2004 15:20:15 -0400 (EDT) Received: from cassandra.whitefang.com (cassandra.whitefang.com [69.55.239.100]) by pyro.enfusion-group.com (Postfix) with SMTP id BDABFE79D7 for ; Thu, 16 Sep 2004 15:20:14 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 71513 invoked from network); 16 Sep 2004 19:20:13 -0000 Received: from cassandra.whitefang.com (HELO cassandra) (69.55.239.100) by 0 with SMTP; 16 Sep 2004 19:20:13 -0000 Date: Thu, 16 Sep 2004 12:20:13 -0700 (PDT) From: Thamer Al-Harbash X-X-Sender: shadows@cassandra.whitefang.com To: Adrian Chung Subject: Re: [gtaSAGE-members] Secondary MXs and Spam policies. In-Reply-To: <20040916171210.GG26738@enfusion-group.com> Message-ID: References: <20040916171210.GG26738@enfusion-group.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS snapshot-20020222 Cc: gtasage-members@gtasage.org X-BeenThere: gtasage-members@gtasage.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list List-Id: aligning system and network administrators in the greater Toronto area. List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 16 Sep 2004 19:20:15 -0000 On Thu, 16 Sep 2004, Adrian Chung wrote: > 2) Is it considered best practice or preference to do RBL and > extensive filtering during the MTA initial session so that mail deemed > > as spam is dropped on the floor earlier rather than later, or queue > the mail and have something more thorough check it and > reject/filter/tag it later? If you have a handful of accounts you can probably get away with queueing and relying on SpamAssassin to do the RBL check. If you have 100,000+ accounts I can tell you from experience you should do an RBL check first, queue it, and then run it through a spam filter if the system load is low enough. Incidently, lots of spammers will connect, spam 100+ accounts, and disconnect. Dropping the connection before you even process the messages can save you a lot of cpu time. > I'm aware that having the mail queued and then rejected means that you > > may end up sending bounces to non-existent (or purposely crafted) > forged envelope sender addresses. It depends on why you're rejecting it. You don't always generate bounces. Ultimately you only generate a bounce if the mail cannot be delivered locally. Right now my personal mail servers will accept mail as long as its destined to my local domain. If you try to send an email to a non existant account I write it to /dev/null. It's useless to do anything else as you'll just generate bounces to non existant addresses 99% of the time. On a large user base you should verify if the account is local or not and deny the SMTP DATA command if the user is not local. Unfortunately this allows spammers to harvest your users, but it does lower your processing load and free up your queue. It's cheap to do a local user lookup (or it should be if you did your job right). It's expensive to bounce. I don't believe in writing to /dev/null on such a system because customers with cancelled accounts should generate an error on the other end. This policy is important or people "lose" mail. > In the case of having secondary MXs not under your control which > simply queue and forward, you lose the ability to reject mail during > the SMTP session unless you check all Received headers against RBLs. That's too bad. See if you can get a friend to act as secondary. Honestly, for a personal system I wouldn't bother with secondary. I only set one up because I had the resources available. If I didn't I wouldn't bother. On the other hand you're forced to have a secondary NS which usually means you can setup a secondary MX. > My personal preference at the moment is to queue mail (even at the > expense of higher resource utilization) and do more thorough checks > later, than to drop things that came from an RBL-listed server at the > front door. Maybe I don't have enough confidence in RBLs. Works fine with 5 users. Good luck doing it with 100k users. Have you looked at DCC? Spamassassin will use it if it can. It's a decent system for rejecting bulk mail based on white lists and fuzzy checksums. It's very lightweight too. -- Thamer Al-Harbash GPG Key fingerprint: D7F3 1E3B F329 8DD5 FAE3 03B1 A663 E359 D686 AA1F From nobody Fri Sep 17 10:00:13 2004 Return-Path: Received: from localhost (pyro.enfusion-group.com [127.0.0.1]) by pyro.enfusion-group.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 250F7E79D7 for ; Fri, 17 Sep 2004 10:00:11 -0400 (EDT) Received: from beast.genosha.enfusion-group.com (genosha.enfusion-group.com [66.11.164.57]) (using TLSv1 with cipher RC4-MD5 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by pyro.enfusion-group.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id BDAC5E79CE for ; Fri, 17 Sep 2004 10:00:10 -0400 (EDT) Received: from rogue.genosha.enfusion-group.com ([192.168.100.10]) by beast.genosha.enfusion-group.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.6713); Fri, 17 Sep 2004 10:00:10 -0400 Received: from adrian by rogue.genosha.enfusion-group.com with local (Exim 3.36 #1 (Debian)) id 1C8JHW-0002E6-00 for ; Fri, 17 Sep 2004 10:00:10 -0400 Date: Fri, 17 Sep 2004 10:00:10 -0400 From: Adrian Chung To: gtasage-members@gtasage.org Subject: Re: [gtaSAGE-members] Secondary MXs and Spam policies. Message-ID: <20040917140010.GH26738@enfusion-group.com> Mail-Followup-To: gtasage-members@gtasage.org References: <20040916171210.GG26738@enfusion-group.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: X-Operating-System: Linux 2.6.8.1 i686 Organization: Enfusion Group User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.6+20040818i X-OriginalArrivalTime: 17 Sep 2004 14:00:10.0461 (UTC) FILETIME=[A552E8D0:01C49CBE] X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS snapshot-20020222 X-BeenThere: gtasage-members@gtasage.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list List-Id: aligning system and network administrators in the greater Toronto area. List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 17 Sep 2004 14:00:11 -0000 On Thu, Sep 16, 2004 at 12:20:13PM -0700, Thamer Al-Harbash wrote: > On Thu, 16 Sep 2004, Adrian Chung wrote: > > > 2) Is it considered best practice or preference to do RBL and > > extensive filtering during the MTA initial session so that mail deemed > > > > as spam is dropped on the floor earlier rather than later, or queue > > the mail and have something more thorough check it and > > reject/filter/tag it later? > > If you have a handful of accounts you can probably get away with > queueing and relying on SpamAssassin to do the RBL check. If you > have 100,000+ accounts I can tell you from experience you should > do an RBL check first, queue it, and then run it through a spam > filter if the system load is low enough. > > Incidently, lots of spammers will connect, spam 100+ accounts, > and disconnect. Dropping the connection before you even process > the messages can save you a lot of cpu time. I'm heavily leaning towards doing this, for these reasons... Anyone actually have a SpamAssassin setup where it checks during the SMTP dialogue and rejects immediately? Most setups I've seen have SpamAssassin checking after the message is queued. > > I'm aware that having the mail queued and then rejected means that you > > > > may end up sending bounces to non-existent (or purposely crafted) > > forged envelope sender addresses. > > It depends on why you're rejecting it. You don't always generate > bounces. Ultimately you only generate a bounce if the mail cannot > be delivered locally. > > Right now my personal mail servers will accept mail as long as > its destined to my local domain. If you try to send an email to a > non existant account I write it to /dev/null. It's useless to do > anything else as you'll just generate bounces to non existant > addresses 99% of the time. Absolutely, something else I need to change, sending bounces for non-existent addresses these days I find a complete waste of time (for small user bases). > That's too bad. See if you can get a friend to act as > secondary. Honestly, for a personal system I wouldn't bother with > secondary. I only set one up because I had the resources > available. If I didn't I wouldn't bother. Well, I've been wondering where the justification in having a secondary MX even is these days. If most MTA's are well-behaved enough to retry for a reasonable period of time against a domain with one MX record pointing to a server that's temporarily unreachable, why even bother having a secondary (or secondaries) that aren't just spam traps? > > My personal preference at the moment is to queue mail (even at the > > expense of higher resource utilization) and do more thorough checks > > later, than to drop things that came from an RBL-listed server at the > > front door. Maybe I don't have enough confidence in RBLs. > > Works fine with 5 users. Good luck doing it with 100k users. Yeah, well, the current setup wouldn't scale to 100K people using IMAP anyways. :) > Have you looked at DCC? Spamassassin will use it if it can. It's > a decent system for rejecting bulk mail based on white lists and > fuzzy checksums. It's very lightweight too. Yes, I use DCC as part of the SpamAssassin arsenal, and I'm very happy with the detection rate. Any experience with greylisting? -- Adrian Chung (adrian at enfusion-group dot com) http://www.enfusion-group.com/~adrian/ GPG Fingerprint: C620 C8EA 86BA 79CC 384C E7BE A10C 353B 919D 1A17 [rogue.genosha.enfusion-group.com] up 30 days, 23:36, 10 users From nobody Sat Sep 18 08:50:37 2004 Return-Path: Received: from localhost (pyro.enfusion-group.com [127.0.0.1]) by pyro.enfusion-group.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D16B4E79DF for ; Sat, 18 Sep 2004 08:50:35 -0400 (EDT) Received: from zen.opentrend.net (rbrockway.tor.istop.com [66.11.182.143]) by pyro.enfusion-group.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 53C4BE79C8 for ; Sat, 18 Sep 2004 08:50:35 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by zen.opentrend.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 873481003698; Sat, 18 Sep 2004 08:50:34 -0400 (EDT) Received: from zen.opentrend.net ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (zen [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 19485-04; Sat, 18 Sep 2004 08:50:34 -0400 (EDT) Received: by zen.opentrend.net (Postfix, from userid 1000) id 6EB731003688; Sat, 18 Sep 2004 08:50:34 -0400 (EDT) Received: from loc